Things appear to be going well.
Someone please correct me and tell me why they actually aren’t.
Or perhaps the people that are voting are lackeys of “Bushco” and have been awarded no-bid voting contracts from Halliburton.
This last election vote went okay, too. I don’t see why this is a surprise. After all, the U.S. never puts more attention into security than on these days.
Why things generally go to hell BETWEEN votes is a different issue, but so far voting days have gone as well as could reasonably be expected.
What’s the debate?
Define “going well”. Do you mean not much violence, or that the vote will go in favor of the constitution?
Yes, it is going well. This is a good thing, in that not very many people are likely to die in order to ratify this tissue of interlocking prevarications. Especially seeing as how just about a week ago, they blatantly tried to rig the vote to make a rejection literally impossible. Freedom is on the lurch.
The “constitution” of Iraq is a sham and a crock. It postpones the really tough choices. Must Kurdistan share resources with Sunniville? Definitely maybe yes, if they decide they would like to. Must the Kurds dismantle and disarm their peshmurga militia? Well, maybe. Might have to give that some thought, pretty soon. Will Islamic law, as interpreted by True Islamic Scotsmen, be the absolute and irrevocable source of jurisprudence? Yes! Repeat, No!
We are creating a permanently dependent client state in Iraq, one that cannot survive five minutes after the last American boot lifts off. This constitution says nothing, enforces nothing, ensures nothing. Its a very good bet that the vast majority of those voting on the civic abortion haven’t the foggiest as to what it actually says. But they are desperately eager for some progress, some civility in their lives. My hearts goes out to them, the innocent victims of our hubris and arrogance, the unwilling subjects of our experiment in nation-building.
May Allah help them, and forgive us. They deserve it, and we don’t.
The news could be good for us, if we take it at face value, don’t look deeply, and don’t take too long doing it. This could be a usable cover story for a withdrawal - just say it’s evidence that the Iraqis are in charge of their own country now, mission accomplished, time to go home. The subsequent shitstorm can be blamed on dat wascally UN for not helping stabilize the place when we asked them to (on our terms, of course). Won’t happen, of course
I was expecting more violence, in an attempt to keep people from voting. I was pleasantly surprised.
As was I. This was the crux of the debate that I put poorly into words. I was in a hurry when creating the OP. My apologies.
I agree with the point that security is never higher than on an election day…but the expected wave of attacks did not materialize. There was a major electrical outage and a few other isolated incidents, but no massive coordinated attacks.
Why?
Is the insurgency running out of gas?
Or do some of them think that the vote will be another step toward American withdrawal so they can wreak more havoc?
Another issue that I felt needed to be examined was the fact that it appears to be getting a little more difficult to find the bad news from Iraq than some are desperately seeking.
Lastly, regarding the OP…I couldn’t resist a little snarkiness. After all, we reflect the environment around us.
You may well be right. Iraq will only stay out of civil war if the people decide to do so. If enough of them are not willing to stand up and take charge of their own country in a positive way, all our blood and treasure cannot make it happen.
I just think it’s too early to sound the death knell…especially if sounding it brings secret joy to a partisan political heart.
In a thread somewhere, I got pretty close to predicting civil war. I would be very happy to find out I was wrong.
I hope you are too. The insurgency is a small, small minority of the people but they have tendency to create the most damage and publicity for obvious reasons.
In order for there to be a civil war you would need a majority of the citizens to be against the current leaders and that doesn’t seem likely to be the case, even if the US completely withdraws. I think we will find in the near future that most of the citizen of Iraq will be satisfied with the leadership and constitution and will be happier yet when the US is finally out. I think we underestimate the sigh of relief that US withdrawl will provide for the Iraqi people, even though our presence there is still needed at this point. Once the dust settles and the US is gone I feel that the Iraqi people will be able to breathe easier and finally be able to rely upon and trust their own government to make the right decisions and keep the rebels at bay.
Are you serious?!? You think after all they’ve been though that they don’t have a clue as to what they’re voting on or what the implications of their votes are?
If they don’t know then they must not care, if they don’t care and don’t know then you’re claiming most Iraqis are ignorant. It that was the case then this whole affair would have been a lot easier than it was. I think you need to re-think your position.
Going well?
Things that make you go hmmmm:
Voters said to hunt for polling sites in west Iraq
Good thing we all know this Administration doesn’t have the slightest clue as to how to rig an election…or four.
Again, the last vote went fine, too, and then the insurgency, well, surged again afterwards.
Another possible explanation is that those in Iraq who’re opposed to the U.S. occupation just don’t see the various votes as being terribly relevant. The U.S. will still be there tomorrow, next week, next month, and probably next year.
How fortunate, then, that we have posters such as yourself, who are innocent of such partisanship.
Right. What would lots of violence accomplish - especially in the Sunni areas. If the Sunnis don’t vote then the constitution gets approved. If the Sunnis vote, then there’s a chance they veto the constitution and penis ensues in Iraq. They could try to destabilize the Shiite and Kurdish centers, but that won’t do much either since it’s not a nationally counted referendum - it’s province by province. If I’m an insurgent, I see how the vote goes.
I agree with that. Welfare, whether economic or military, is not a good permanent solution.
Not really. Most of the insurgency violence is Sunni against Shi’a. There’d still be good reason (if it can be called that) to blow up Shi’a polling places.
It’s worth noting that many experts believe that if the Constitutional referendum passes, things will get worse in Iraq, because the Sunnis will interpret it as their fellow non-Sunni Iraqis giving them the heave-ho and getting royally pissed as a result. Which will then lead to more violence, more attacks, and an even more entrenched American presence. On the other hand, if the vote fails, everyone goes back to square one. This must be a definition of “going well” I’m unfamiliar with.
But then, I suspect that anything short of a election cancellation would have been interpreted as “going well” by Evil One. For the rest of us, the fact that the voting rules kept changing up to the last minute is not a sight to inspire much confidence…
I feel a need to clarify.
I am pleased that this referendum has gone largely without violence. Further, I have little doubt that it will pass, since it reflects the wants and wishes of a clear majority of the Iraqi people (if such an abstraction can truly be said to exist…).
But we have already witnessed a bald attempt to stack the deck, played out just about a week ago, when the ruling committees tried to define “voter” in a fashion that just about rendered a “no” vote impossible. This is not the action of people who are primarily concerned with having the will of the people be heard, and made manifest. These are not men motivated by democratic idealism. If need be, will they cheat. I think that pretty likely, given the circumstances.
What are we to make of this, but that the ruling committee is not so much concerned with the “march of freedom” but in covering thier own political butts. And forestalling the day when their power must be passed to those who might review thier stewardship with less than sympathetic eyes. The bookkeeping, for instance.
So here’s my WAG: it will pass, and pass handily. For what its worth, which ain’t much, that’s a good thing. Anything political that transpires in Iraq without bloodshed is a good thing.
It will be trumpted to the skies by the Bushiviks and their partisans. Not a good thing, but not a bad one either, since time will soon tell the truth of the matter. Besides, things have gone so badly for them lately, it would be churlish to deny them their brief moment of joy. They have so few, poor dears.