I don’t think we’re criticising Ireland (by which I assume you mean the Irish government) for trying to control immigration. Yojimbo and other have expressed anger at the motivations some Neanderthals seem to come up with, though. Different thing.
Zero generations. Anyone who wants to come to my country, is willing to work for a living, will obey the law, and learn to speak the language, is more than welcome in my book.
As for Patrick Kluivert (born and raised in Amsterdam, BTW): if he were to pull a Terreblanche and tell me that somehow, the Surinamese were our Overlords and that white Dutchmen are second class citizens, then hell yes, I’d tell him to fuck right off. What’s your point? I wasn’t claiming all white South Africans are bastards. I was merely pointing out that Terreblanche and his fellow assnuggets who wish for the return of Apartheid need a fucking history lesson.
About whether there is any learning in school of foreign cultures, well that hasnt changed, I graduated in 2000 and all we learned about was the french in a french class like someone already mentioned.
My sister is a teacher in a school in Kildare at the moment and they have several non-national kids in the school, even withthe kids being present the irish kids are not taught anything about the other cultures. My sister says these kids are the nicest you could get, its the irish kids you have to look out for.
To get back to the question first posted in the thread title though, without getting into the politics of it, yes Ireland has become a racist country, even before the referendum took place. I work in a fairly busy supermarket that has its fair share of non-national customers, and it is fair to say that some of our irish customers are not at all impressed with them if they end up behind them in queues etc.
Counsel Wolf may remember this story, a couple of years ago, a local newspaper, The Waterford Today, made up a story as an April Fools joke, that Walsh Park (local GAA Field) was to be turned into an international spice market with a mosque (sp?) at one end where the non nationals could go and pray on their holy days. It was an amusing sotry and those that got the joke laughed about it. However there were some who didnt and tried to cause upraor about the whole thing.
Not because they were losing the GAA pitch but because these people had already taken enough from the health boards (buggies, houses, whatever) and didnt deserve to have something bullt that only they could use.
They’re not. I’m sure if yojimbo were the same person living in a non-western country with a bad attitude to immigrants, I’m sure he’d have started a similar thread.
I lived in Hong Kong, and am happy to state that the attitude of many indigenous Hong Kong residents towards immigrants and foreign workers there is absolutely shameful (E.g. my boss once said before a meeting “we’re going to meet some Philippinos; they’re a coarse people and not as sophisticated as us, so remember we can trick them”; and the worst story I read in the papers when I was there: Hong Kong family locks itself out of apartment in tower block. Rather than getting a locksmith, or doing the job himself, the patriarch sends the Indonesian maid out of the window of the apartment above dangling on a fucking washing line. Rope breaks, maid plummets hundreds of feet to her death.).
Look jjimm, I have absolutely no objection to the OP and regret any implication that I was critical of it. I was merely projecting beyond it lamenting the * apparent* lack of concern by everyone for discrimination and anti immigration issues all over the world. Plus I was gearing up for ripping out a new asshole on Coldfire for suggesting “whitey” is an immigrant in South Africa.
And Coldfire, I’ll grant you that you are an extremely smart individual but I also realize that you are still very immature. Your** “You’re in good company, jjimm, because I have no fucking clue what he’s on about either. Anyone else care to guess?”** comment is clearly an attempt to ingratiate yourself to a prospective ally and issue an invitation to pile on me". That was so middle school. Did you say you were 8 years out of university? The problem here of course is that you’ve been entrusted with an office that regulates others. Just how impartial can a 13 year old be?
Not discussing the issues of anti-immigration and discrimination around the world doesn’t really show a 'lack of concern’ to me it’s just that we are specifically discussing Ireland here. And with regards to Coldfires ‘whitey’ comment I think that it was a bit tongue in cheek if you ask me, just pointing out how bizarre it is for someone who is a fairly recent descendant of an immigrant would get all uppity about immigration laws. Technically 'whitey is (or was) an immigrant to South Africa.
Well, I’ve heard racist South African whites say that white immigration into South Africa coincided with black immigration there, and the only true indigenous inhabitants were the bushmen. Dunno how true that is.
Anyway, back on track, I thought I’d just mention the practical results of the racist talk and attitudes: a (probable) racist attack that happened in my neighbourhood last year.
The good news is that the family have picked themselves up, got the store fixed up, and reopened a couple of weeks ago. With two full-time security guards.
And what a convincing job you did, huh? I explained in what contect that remark was to be taken: it was aimed at racist fuckheads like Terreblance, not white South Africans at large. Seeing as how you were the only one to miss that point, could it be that the problem is, well, you?
Well, you’re half right.
An invitation to a pile-on? Grienspace, you underestimate your own capabilities to make a complete and utter ass out of yourself. You don’t need me, or in fact anyone on these boards, to help you in that regard. I was merely agreeing with jjimm that once again, you’re making no fucking sense whatsoever.
Seven, actually. Which makes me 31 years old. Not that it’s all that relevant - a 50 year old man can be immature, and a 16 year old can be mature. Why is my age relevant, here?
I don’t get this. I have not posted as a moderator in this thread, I’ve merely participated in the discussion as a member. How the hell can someone several years out of univerity be 13, anyway? Or was that some sort of hyperbole used to describe my apparent state of immaturity?
Anyways, should you feel my moderator skills are lacking, you’re free to start a pit thread, or e-mail Ed Zotti to lodge a complaint. As it is, this thread is not even about them. I know you like the martyr game, but it’s completely irrelevant here.
Gee Coldfire I know its getting late out there in “whitey” land but
I don’t recall asking you even one question in the last post. You volunteered all that bullshit because I’m not taking your crap lying down and you’re getting paranoid about not getting any sycophantic support. Face it you fucked up. Terrablanche, racist asshole that he is, with ancestry going back 450 years in South Africa should never have his legitimacy to reside there questioned. Even tongue in cheek. Although I wouldn’t dream of thinking or calling you a racist, that was a stupid racist comment. Period.
Stop weaseling. You either call me a racist, or you don’t. A person who makes racist remarks is a racist, there’s no pussy-footing about it. So what is it? Am I a racist, or not?
Terreblanche’s legitimacy of residence is never something I contested. He has every right to live in South Africa, obviously. Looks like you’re again reading things that were never there. This was never a debate about the legitimacy of residence: I pointed out Terreblanche’s historical ignorance. It is possible to point out who the original inhabitants of a country were to put things in perspective, without being an anti-white supremacist, you know. But obviously, such subtleties are ever so lost on you.
Is it OK to suggest that the original inhabitants of Canada were in fact not white folks with European ancestry, or does that make me hate Whitey, too?
I’ll take that omnipresent sycophantic support now, if you please. If there’s one thing I’ve gotten used to in my 3 years as a moderator here, it’s universal admiration and asskissing abound. Snort.
Your words speak for themselves! You just asserted that Whitey is the immigrant in South Africa. Now if you believe that, than the corollary must follow.Darkie is the immigrant in Europe. Sorry, but I can’t ignore the racism that exists in your statement.
Secondly, any discussion on the immigration is a discussion of the right of permanent residence. Legal immigrants carry residence cards.To be a legal immigrant is to have a foreigner granted the right of residence and ultimately the right to work . At least thats what it means around here.
And certainly its fair to point out that Europeans weren’t the first to inhabit Canada. But don’t call all white people here immigrants.
If you didn’t mean what I just quoted you on than say so. To tell me that you only meant it for certain people just doesn’t make any sense.
At the risk of an accusation of a jjimm/Coldie cabal here…
Er… but they are. With very few exceptions, black immigration in Europe only goes back to about the 1950s. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s a fact. Don’t see what’s wrong with that assertion.
I agree with this, but it’s an accident of history: the people in power don’t usually consider themselves immigrants. But talk to a hardline “Ireland for the Irish” Republican, and you’ll find they consider the Ulster protestants to be something akin to an immigrant population, even though they’ve been there since Elizabeth I.
Perhaps Coldfire could have expressed it in gentler terms, but the white population of South Africa is relatively recent compared to other African populations; as is, for example, the Indian population in Madagascar, Malaysia, and Mauritius, or the Chinese population in Vietnam, Indonesia, and Thailand, or the white populations of Australia and New Zealand. Doesn’t alter their right to live there, and nor should it, but it’s a fact.
Reverting to different terminology (since my wording earlier on was obviously sarcastic - I’m not known for using terms like “Whitey” and “Darkie” in polite discussion unless it illustrates a point), yes, the indiginous population of Europe can be labeled as “white”. What is your point?
Where? What the fuck is racist about stating pertinent facts like “The original inhabitants of South Africa were black, not white” and “Europeans can largely be labeles as white”.
Yes, that’s all pretty much correct. Immigrants carry residency cards here, too. Why are you even saying all of this?
Neither do I. Nor would I say so of the white citizens of South Africa.
I have a strong suspicion you’re just playing word games here to get a rise out of me, grienspace. What is so difficult to understand? I pointed out the irony of someone (who’s a known racist and pro-Apartheid activist) speaking of “maintaining the white culture” or somesuch horseshite - and to point that irony out, I stated that white people can be considered the immigrants in South Africa, seeing as how black people were already living there. Using this hyperbolically doesn’t equate to stating all current white citizens of South Africa are to be labeled immigrants. It merely means that when a supremacist asswipe like Terreblanche is trying to re-introduce Apartheid under the guise of “keeping the white man’s culture alive”, you shove him some history in his face.
And to get back on topic: the Irish decision to curb Irish citizenship for the children of immigrants is not even being discussed per se: it is the motivations behind approving it per referendum, from the man in the street, that yojimbo objected to. It’s about the racist tendencies in Ireland, brought out by this recent decision. I merely responded to Terreblanche’s reaction, which was equally reprehensible as it was predictable.
Now stop mincing words, and for fuck’s sake, stop trying to imply that I’m a racist. For some reason you seem to hate my guts, and that’s well within your rights. I would suggest that you pick your fights a little more carefully, though. Because right now, you’re just seeking offense where there isn’t any, and it’s making you look like a petulant child.
I was so upset when I learned that this racisst referendum passed. How dare Europeans try to limit immigration by people of color. After what Europeans did to Africa, this is disgusting!
Er… the referendum, while I disagreed with it, had nothing whatsoever to do with “people of color”. It was about anyone from outside the EU, no matter what colour they are.
I certainly agree that white immigration in South Africa is recent with respect to black residence and that back immigration in Europe is even more recent. Can’t argue the facts. But it is the purpose of the assertion that gets my gall. The intent was to suggest that a distinction based on colour would have some relevance when discussing the topic of immigration.
I’m an immigrant. I was 6 months old when I moved to Canada. In my elementary school years I was tormented by children and adults and beat up by older children because I was not of British stock. But thanks to the influx of many visible minorities, my United Empire Loyalist neighbours eventually embraced my ethnic group. However resentment of immigrants (visible minorities) is rampant.
And here you make my point. If your different, it doesn’t matter how many generations your people have been around,you are still an immigrant. Ergo, you have a little less right to live here. I hate that sentiment.
Nah, but when you told me that I didn’t belong on this message board and that I should seek out another one, I kind of resented that. I kinda hoped that you didn’t really mean that. Over time however I realized you really meant it.
Anyway assuming your willing to leave me the last word on our hassle, I’m quite willing to re-assert that I never for one second regarded you as a racist.
me.