Cheers ruadh
(in reference to my statement that I would leave if Sinn Fein got into power)
I’m not a relative of any of their high profile victims or any of the political leaders but half my family is Northern Irish protestant. I’m referring to Sinn Fein’s cowardly refusal to condemn the actions of the IRA whenever they kill anyone for political gain. This is admittedly mostly a historic thing now as the IRA aren’t killing people nowadays. The only conclusion I can reach is that Sinn Fein must agree that these deaths were justified and that by making it into a coalition government a significant proportion of the populace agree. The fact that enough people are comfortable with such a concept is so revolting to me that I would not feel safe staying, in fact my entire family are on record as wishing to leave in such a circumstance.
Didn’t see this on preview or I wouldn’t have replied, I’ll not mention them again. We now return you to the OP. Does anyone have any thoughts on the education question I posted earlier? Chances are that’s were the first really serious clashes will be.
Even though this thread is NOT about Sinn Fein or the IRA, I’d like to throw in the obligatory “Us Cloggies are really sorry about the whole King William/Protestantism thing”-post. So there. 
Since we’re in the apologising mode, can I also say sorry for the little matter of the invasion and the 800 years of oppression and all that. No use crying over spilled milk, water under the bridge, let bygones be bygones and so on, what what?
I’ll stand by my earlier pledge not to take this thread in that direction, but you guys gotta know, it’s killing me 
I have. I went to a convent secondary school in the arse end of rural Ireland from 1980-1985. We had no lessons in race relations whatsoever. Whether such lessons were part of national/primary school education, at that time, I have no idea, as I am a blow in and that’s when we arrived in the country.
I do remember a series of lessons on what they called “Civics”. This involved learning The Constitution off by heart, being taught how to write a cheque and postal order and hearing the RC Church’s teachings on how life should be lived. Fair enough, given that we were all Catholics.
Interestingly enough, it was during one of these classes that we were told not to fraternise with any Protestants. One of the girls put up her hand to say that she didn’t know what one looked like.
The reason I remember this was that the priest giving the class said that we shouldn’t be worried as there weren’t any of them around these parts anyway and we should be glad as they were all bad news and children from a “mixed marriage” always went to the bad. And they couldn’t get married in The Real Church and had to get married in one of those Protestant churches as no priest would marry them.
As I was one such child of a - GOSH - mixed Catholic and Protestant union, I decided to stalk out of the class at this juncture, filled with early teenaged angst and indignation.
This of course, proved the point the priest was making.
Race relation classes? You must be joking! We weren’t even expected to get on with other white people!!
On a side note, my oldest friend Jay had an interesting moment about ten years ago in Dublin. He was there on holiday having spent a couple weeks in England visiting friends.
So Jay is walking down the street in the early evening when a couple older men start calling him racially charged names. (Jay is half black and half white) After a minute of this, Jay turns around and starts roundly cussing them out…
IN GAELIC
Oh, didn’t I mention Jay’s mom was from Kerry and spoke fluent Gaelic and taught him well? :)
Apparently the old men and the bystanders were gobsmacked and much hilarity enused much to the guys’ discomfort. I wish I could have been there to see it.
C’mon ruadh, you insensitive Yank. Apologise to the Indians already. 
Well the Irish need to do that as well. The blacks as well. A lot of us were absolute wankers to the poor bastards when we got to the states. Bad times in general.
Ahhhh, reminds me of a moment in a college class called Development of Latin American Culture. It was conducted in Spanish, and I was the only non-native speaker in the class. The professor, a radical leftist Puerto Rican nationalist who frequently forgot what language she was speaking, spent many a lecture going on and on about how the history of Latin America was that of the evil white Europeans oppressing the virtuous brown indigenous people and making off with their natural resources. Usually while glaring at me.
While I was sympathetic to her points, I certainly didn’t want to be blamed implicitly for the pillaging of Inca silver or the overthrow of Salvador Allende, as my ancestors ended up in the U.S. as a result of Central/Eastern European anti-Semitism. So finally I raised my hand and mentioned that, well, this was all very educational, but it would be nice if she took into account for class discussion purposes that unfortunately no single group has a monopoly on persecution.
We got along much better after that.
There was no education about other countries or cultures in school really. Apart from a bit about the French in French class etc.
We learned a good bit of the History of England and some main European countries but that was just pure history.
We had a Iranian diplomats son in one class for a while but he left due to the grief he got for being a “heathen” from some of the kids. I got into trouble actually for fighting with him against other kids(my father was very proud of me for that and told the school so when they sent a letter home saying I was nearly suspended :D).
While I think there does need to be a lot of education given to the reasons for immigration and the state of the countries that a lot of these people are coming from I don’t know how effective it will be.
This racism that I’m talking about isn’t based on age or class. It has crossed all divides and it’s deep 
Point well taken.
Still, it’s relatively simple being Dutch. It pretty much means you have to apologise to the rest of the world for either oppressing them, looting them, or selling them at one time or another.
That takes some guts. Much respect, and the same to your father!
And, as the American-born descendent of Irish immigrants, I, on behalf of all Americans, would like to apologize to myself, on behalf of Irish immigrants and their families, for the poor treatment we recieved at our hands during the great waves of emigration in the 18th century. Although I am outraged at myself for the racism we faced, I am more than mollified by my concilatory attitude I have taken towards myself in later years.
I don’t get that. If I understand correctly, the only change will be that people born in Ireland won’t anymore be automatically granted Irish (hence EU ) citizenship.
This automatic citizenship by birth has been phased out in France a dozen years ago. However, I assumed it still existed in some other EU countries. Was Ireland the last EU country in this situation (if not, other countries could hardly complain)?
Did other EU countries actually voice serious concerns about this issue?
How many children of illegal immigrants (I assume that children of legal immigrants aren’t an issue) are born in Ireland each year? Is this number in any way significant by comparison to the overall number of immigrants in the EU? Is it even significant regarding Ireland alone?
More generally, isn’t “unfair for other EU countries” a convenient excuse for this constitutionnal change (it’s not because we don’t like immigrants, it’s all the fault of the EU)? I don’t think this question is unwarranted, given that the “EU joker” is often used as an excuse to push legislations which either are unpopular or raise concern, when the government actually support the legislation but is unwilling to publically admits to it.
How do the Irish feel about American immigrants?
My cousin (American) lived in Ireland for a couple of years recently. I don’t think she encountered problems. Of course her last name is Collins and is very Irish looking.
When I was visiting Ireland, some drunk guys in Dublin heard my American accent and said some nasty things to me. I’m of Irish ancestry and you wouldn’t be able to tell I wasn’t Irish unless you heard me speak. So do the “racist” Irish people dislike Americans too (well I should say white Americans)? Or is it just people with dark skin or who look “different”?
I’m sorry to hear about your bad treatment, nyctea scandiaca. There’s a weird relationship with Americans here. Many Irish people have lived and worked in America, or have close relatives who do, and there’s definitely a bond there. That said, there is also a pervasive anti-Americanness in some people. Some is based on the politics, and isn’t really directed at individuals, but there is also a “feckin’ yank” mentality occasionally apparent.
I know several US immigrants here, and they seem to do OK, though most I have spoken to have reported the odd nastiness directed towards them. One poor guy I know is a very pro-Bush conservative, and he has had unpleasant comments directed at him based on both his politics and his nationality. Things do seem to have got worse since Bush has been in power. However, that’s just my impression: maybe a genuine American expat could comment.
I think ex-pats fare better than tourists, who can be treated rather cynically, with a smile on the face and a hand in the wallet. That said, some tourists don’t do themselves any favours. I joined in a collective eyerolling sigh yesterday when a group of about 30 large baseball-capped people destroyed the peace and quiet of Trinity College by screaming with laughter and hollering at each other just outside the Book of Kells museum. Do they have no self-awareness?
I have never been to Ireland, but the impression I get (from my relative’s visits) is that ireland is a relatively UNDERpopulated country. At the time of the Potato Famine (ca. 1840) the population was over 6 million, whereas today, it is less.
Ought to be enough room for people…my Dad says western ireland 9the countryside, anyway) looks almost uninhabited! And the village that my grandfather came from (in Donegal) has fewer people living there now, than 100 years ago.
So why are we singling out Ireland. Why are only western countries criticized when seeking to control immigration.
How many generations does it require to erase the stigma of immigration? Would you dare tell Patrick Kluivert he is an immigrant to his face?