Well, you can’t say “since you make nothing then you can commit crimes very cheaply”. There has to be a minimum. I do not think it is a good argument to say that if some people cannot do something then no one can do it.
If a man commits a crime and he is no danger to society and no risk of committing more crimes what is better: (a) jail him for a year at hisgh cost to society of (b) make him work three years on his own and turn all the product of his work over to the state? Option b seems to me to be as hard a punishment as option a and a much betetr deal for the state. Not to mention that people who spend time in jail are more likely to continue to commit more crimes.
The fact that poor people need the money does not make sense. A poor person in jail for a year looses one year’s salary. A rich person granted this alternative loses three or four years’ salary. And he keeps being productive and integrated.
I do not understand the reasoning that a punishment would be appropriate for a person but we will not allow it because it cannot be imposed on another person of different circumstances.
It’s not just millionaires who get away with this sort of thing. The fact of the matter is Ireland does a very poor job of punishing sex crimes. I actually don’t think nine months for downloading images is that bad compared to a lot of the recent cases* in which people (usually young women) have been actually assaulted and their attacker sentenced to only a few years, if that … and let’s not forget the man who sold his own mentally-challenged daughter to one of his mates for the price of a pint and wasn’t even charged with anything …
[sub]*I don’t have time to dig up the cites for these at the moment but I will later if anyone wants me to[/sub]
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly with that. I also agree that it’s uselss and expensive to lock up people who aren’t likely to commit more crimes and aren’t violent. My objection is to creating a new class of punishments based simply on an individual’s financial fortunes, or misfortunes, as the case may be. Sounds divisive and like a good recipe for class hatred. Both of which we already have more than enough. While locking these people up is, as you and I agree, pointless, costly and stupid, I’m afraid I see no alternative that promotes or maintains an equal society. That is, if we’re insistent on making any specific act a crime in the first place, which child pornography obviously should be. There are many other “crimes” the laws and penalties for which could simply be removed from the statutes.
UncleBeer, I agree it may cause some social friction, in some countries more than others but i think it could be successfully avoided with enough public discussion of the issue. OTOH, if the populist parties decide to make an issue and a banner out of it, then I agree it could backfire.
If you read the link in the OP, you’ll see that that premis of the OP is wrong. The orginal sentence was “a nine-month suspended jail sentence.”
The guy was NOT going to jail before buying his way out with a big donation.
As I understand suspended sentences ( and IANA lawyer) they serve two purposes: first that it is a sword haning over his head that can be imposed if the person commits another crime or violates some provision of the remainder of the sentence handed down by the judge); and second that it becomes a more serious blot on the record of the defendent in case there is a future sentencing for some other crime.
I don’t want to defend this guy, but the assertion that he bought his way out of jail time appears to be flat out wrong.
>> the assertion that he bought his way out of jail time appears to be flat out wrong.
That’s what happens when you just take the OP as fact. I’ll try to be more careful in the future.
Apologies for missing the ‘suspended’ part of the report. I must say, that is not how it’s being portrayed over here in the media (radio, etc.). Must read more thoroughly.
He dosent have any probation now. After 240 hours (thats only 10 days) he is in the clear. He offered €40,000 for his sentence to be reduced. He bought his way out of his original sentence.
The sad and scary thing I found about this when I read it in the paper the other day, was that the falla has 4 kids - 2 boys and 2 girls - who (IIRC) are all in their teens. What the bloody hell was (could he possibly have been) doing to his own kids when they were little?
Having known and worked with these types of people, it is an obsession that, if you will, cultivates itself over the years.
Crimes committed by the rich and famous (be them actors, politicians, or whatever) are often played down and rarely punished severely - not just in Ireland, but the world over. It is a very sad fact. It is bad enough being convicted as it tarnish their name, but to actually be sentenced harshly is a career destroyer. IMHO, too bad sunshine. Do the crime, do the time.
He didn’t have any probation before, according to the article in the OP. And 240 hours translates to 6 weeks community service at 8 hours a day, not 10 days.
Like I said, I don’t want to defend this guy. It DOES sound like he got a real sweetheart deal. I just want the facts to be presented correctly.
Of course, the linked article may be wrong. I haven’t done any further searching for other resources.
yojimboguy, since I heard about this case, I’ve been trying to work out whether or not he was going to jail prior to the deal. The reports are conflicting. The Irish Times made no mention of the original sentence having been suspended (can’t provide a link as it’s a pay site). But RTE (Irish national broadcaster) and the link in the OP do state that the sentence was suspended and I think that was the case. So you’re right that “bought his way out of jail” is an unfair summary but, in defence of the OP, it is one that is being bandied around more or less unchallenged on the Irish airwaves.
According to the Irish Times, in three cases of possession of child porn taken recently under the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act, suspended sentences have been handed down in two (one of which was taken in the Circuit Court) and a nine month jail sentence imposed in the other. So, the removal of the suspended sentence makes Allen’s the most lenient sentence yet (if you disregard the €40,000) but a jail term is far from universal in such cases.
I also realise that some of my earlier post was incorrect. I was wrong in saying that the case was tried in the District Court because it carried a 12 month maximum sentence - in fact, that maximum only applied because the DPP chose to pursue it in the District Court. He could have chosen to prosecute via the Circuit Court, where the maximum sentence would have been 5 years. I was also wrong about the DPP’s freedom to appeal a sentence handed down in the District Court (there were calls for the DPP to do this last week). He doesn’t have that option, although that is now under review. Apologies.
Finally, the Allen family have engaged public relations consultants, through which they have put out a statement to the effect that the Ballymaloe business had severed its links with Tim Allen. This is nothing more than a defence of the family business, and does not represent a punishment of Allen. On the radio this morning it became clear that he had not been ejected from the business but that he had chosen to withdraw. The extent of that withdrawal is questionable - it appears that he will remain half-owner. The statement is just meant to allow customers buy Ballymaloe produce with a clear conscience but Tim will still be profiting from every spoonful of that chocolate ice cream, folks. Unfortunately, it’s the employees (c. 120, I believe) I feel sorry for.
I think you are right to feel sorry for the employees, because Ballymaloe could go down the pan over this. I am sure I am not the only one who will not be spending any more money on Ballymaloe products.
Having said that, though, the marketing gurus will probably rebrand the whole shooting match and all the product lines will go for export.
I would think that the cookery schoool has probably had its day, though
It is a sobering thought that money I earned wound up lining the pockets of kiddie pornographers in Texas, courtesy of Mr Allen.