Iron Fist (Netflix)

Not that i disagree with your premise but that is sorta what those flyers are for. Plus she put up a bunch of them.

With some China/Tibet controversy thrown in for good measure.

I find the whole questions on ethnic casting to be ridiculous. It’s make belief dude.

On topic, the problem in the episodes seen this far is that the actors are not good enough to carry it. A comic book adaptation lives and dies on acting quality. Both Jessica Jones and and Luke Cage had sillier premises but, Krysten Ritter, Mike Colter, Meharshala Ali, and David Tennent were able to make the show and the story compelling. Not the case here.

Well, to be fair, previous Marvel’s netflix series have been pretty good in moving away from the SWM superhero type, with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. And Daredevil may be a SWM, but he’s disabled, so there’s that. :wink:

Technically, the flyers were for prospective students, not homeless billionaire ninja magnets. Anyway, he can read it just fine while it’s stapled to the bulletin board.

I’m really not sure what the best way to play this would have been. I mean, wouldn’t changing him to Asian just play into ‘every Asian knows Kung Fu’ and ‘mystical Asian magic’-stereotypes?

So I guess I can see them sticking with the original story: after all, that way, they can just claim ‘that’s how the character’s always been’. Any change seems likely to have brought on controversy from some direction (of course, one might then ask whether he’s such a great character to make a series about; and after viewing the first episode, I’m not sure about that, either).

So far it’s kinda meh, but it’s watchable enough.

My favorite idea for it would’ve had him be some kid who grew up like third-generation immigrant, no knowledge of martial arts or Mandarin or anything, and who via the plane crash got a forced introduction to his ancestors’ culture. The series would’ve had a great internal conflict: everyone would be like, “Ooh, Asian dude, know some kung fu?” and he’d be like, “That’s racist obviously, but it turns out…” and so on.

The other interesting idea would’ve been to make him like Puerto Rican or something. Surferdouche is just not an especially interesting choice.

This is breaking my heart. I got Marvel Premiere #15 off the racks because of the Gil Kane cover (no one shades noses like GK!) and was hooked.

I would’ve been very open to a switch to an Asian lead. The point was revenge and deliverance and consequences. And the whole “Fist like unto a thing of iron” shit. That was cool.

Damnit.

Made it through 3 1/2 eps last night and thought it just seemed cheap and amateurish.

Couldn’t care less about him being white. They’ve got plenty of Asians fulfilling their stereotypes.

Colleen is low-key, but she’s tough and resourceful and sure of herself and genuinely dedicated to helping folks make something of themselves – and I figure that I’d rather watch The Continuing Adventures Of Colleen Wing than those of Patsy or Karen or Foggy even leaving aside the fact that she also, uh, looks amazing.

I know next to nothing about the Iron Fist from the comics, but I’ve enjoyed the previous Netflix Marvel shows very much.

Iron Fist is fairly enjoyable, but it fails to live up to the standards set by the previous series. The acting of most of the primary characters is a little poorer, as is the dialogue. Not a lot poorer, but enough that this show feels a lot cheaper than the others when combined with its other problems.

One thing that is really disappointing to me, but perhaps not that important, is that the fight choreography is lacking. In each of the previous series, the fight choreography was perfect for that character, IMO. JJ and LC were not especially flashy or trained, but DD was, and each fit their style. But the choreography was interesting and well-done regardless. Danny should be at least as flashy and skilled as DD, but the way the fights are filmed, with quick cuts and shaky cam, the fights come off closer to typical action flick stuff instead of interesting and of a uniquely appropriate style. Wing’s sword fighting and the fight with the drunken master are notable exceptions, and this show would have done well to put as much effort and creativity* into all of the fights.

The main problem is the character arc for Danny and the overall story arc were both poor, uninteresting choices. Although it is clear that Danny is supposed to be a troubled, traumatized boy in a man’s body finding his place in the world and in himself, there’s just no way to make him likable while doing that in a filmed production. Catcher in the Rye starring Donald Trump acting like Steven Seagal. This actor is actually not that bad, it’s just that no one could play that character - especially as a “good guy” - and come off interesting and likable. It was especially a poor choice to have his conflicts play out so BIG - yelling and punching stuff all the time is actually far less dramatic and endearing then seeing someone highly disciplined and centered quaver or tremble when struggling.

I’ll have to put more thought into what went wrong with the story arc. And I should probably give people with busier lives to catch up before I spoil later episodes. But it was bland.

All of this, however, is to say that the show was less then the other Netflix Marvel shows, but it was still pretty good and rather entertaining. Despite failing to live up to the expectations set by the other ones, it’s still well above average TV.

*OK, the drunken master fight was clearly a rip off, er, homage to Jackie Chan’s drunken master, down to specific moves, but it was faithful and interesting if not exactly original.

Incidentally, that wasn’t Danny’s arc in the original comic.

Here, he’s taken in at the monastery after that plane crash, and like everyone else there he studies the martial arts because – uh, that’s what they do there, I guess? And he gets the Iron Fist treatment because – he felt like it? And then he left the tranquility of the Himalayas for New York City because – he wanted to? And that brings us to the first episode, where he – just shows up, barefoot and cheerful?

See, in the comic, he’s taken in at the monastery after he saw someone murder his father; he then spends years learning the martial arts because he wants to spin-kick that murderer’s liver; he then goes for the whole Iron Fist thing because he wants to magic-punch that murderer’s nutsack; he then walks out of paradise – rejecting the wisdom of his disappointed teachers – because he’s like a lung-seeking missile on its way to a torso that can only be found in New York City, is the thing.

Bit of a different origin story, is my point.

  1. I’m only up to episode 7, so spoilers to that point and I’m not posting anything past that.

  2. I like the guy playing Danny. Screw that he’s white, he looks/sounds/acts the way I’ve pictured the character since about 1975 or so. Also, him being white is critical to one huge barrier in comics being broken. He and Misty Knight (from Luke Cage) fell in love and he kissed her. On panel. Marvel endured a brief shitstorm over “racial mixing” (and only 10 years after Kirk kissed Uhura on TV). IIRC some twat even wrote in that he wouldn’t buy a book where a white man polluted himself with a negress(?). That deserves to be remembered and I hope that they get Danny and Misty together in Defenders.

  3. The pacing is just…weird. Each episode starts a little further ahead of where the last one left off so it feels like we’re missing something. Iron Fist isn’t doing enough and his power is really being underused, especially as cheap/easy a CGI effect as it must be.

  4. Like I said, I’m only on Ep. 7, but if we don’t get a half-episode long flashback to Danny’s time in K’un L’un, I’ll be pretty disappointed. There’s a great secondary cast of characters (Yu-Ti the ruler of K’un L’un, Lei Kung the Thunderer, Danny’s one ally/teacher)

  5. If one really must get into all the racial crap, they could introduce Davos (Lei Kung’s son) who spews on and on about how he was cheated out of the Iron Fist and an outsider shouldn’t have gotten it.

  6. I like how this is tying into the rest of the Defendersverse–Madam Gao from Daredevil, Night Nurse from all of the series, Jeri Hogarth* from Jessica Jones. The universe is starting to feel cohesive.
    *And that’s a change for the better. In the comics, Jeryn Hogarth was a boring, fat old attorney with no real personality. He was kinda like Foggy Nelson gone cynical and old. The only traits that Hogarth needs are slightly fuzzy ethics and being a lawyer. Jeri is about a thousand percent more interesting as a much more ethically questionable lesbian than Jeryth was as a slightly questionable fat white (presumably straight) old guy.

Oh–two more thoughts. I love the actress playing Madam Gao. She’s wonderful at being creepy and utterly benign/polite at the same time.

The director has already used the bullshit cliche of character one answering a question where the answer can be summed up in two, three sentences, but the questionee responds “It’s…complicated.” two or three times. It’s lazy-ass writing and annoying as hell.

Or when he meets the second contestant in his fight to rescue the Russian chemists daughter: “You’re a woman?!”

Seriously?

The problem with this is that the most important aspect of Iron Fist other than his origin story is his long relationship with Luke Cage as a partner/foil, which I assume this is the reason Marvel made this series and is putting the character into the Defenders.
Luke Cage and Danny Rand were Marvel’s version of the Odd Couple. Danny is white, rich, and privileged, as well as naive and out-of-touch with American culture, which makes him Luke’s opposite in almost every way.

Iron Fist’s last issue of his original run was #15. Power Man (i.e. Luke Cage) & Iron Fist ended with #125.

You can hit every point except the first and the contrast is still pretty strong.

Plus I’m kinda skeptical that there are plans to really strongly link the two characters the way they are in the comics. Just a feeling I have.

According to the credits, Lei Kung was in episode 6. Presumably the monk he was imagining/communing with during the gauntlet.

Ah, but the fact that it is make believe is EXACTLY why it’s such a powerful issue.

Read about Nichell Nichols’ talk with MLK Jr., or relatedly, how Whoopi Goldberg was inspired to get into show biz, for a couple of classic examples.