Irving Berlin

Just to get the records straight on who wrote the song ALEXANDRA’S RAG TIME BAND"
The composer was JACK JACOBS, he was my grand father’s brother, the song was written for their band which was Alexandra’s Rag Time Band, they where born in London and the band was formed there before 1911, Irving Berlin bought the music from Jack Jacobs with all rights to the song and music in 1911.

Jack Jacobs was a verteose violin player and in later years travelled to New York to play for Joscha Heifetz and another famous Hungarian violinist, he stayed at the Knicket Brocker Hotel whenever he went to America.

These are true facts facts that never where made public.

Welcome to the Dope, Chocolateart.

Do you have any documentation for this version of events? Where did you learn of this?

And, to make it easier to understand the column in question, it’s customary to post a link to the column. Is this the thread you are referring to? If Irving Berlin couldn’t read or write music, how did he compose? - The Straight Dope

I don’t see a problem here: Irving Berlin wrote “Alexander’s Rag Time Band”. and Jack Jacobs wrote “Alexandra’s Rag Time Band”.

I know of a Jack Jacobs who was associated with the Irving Berlin music company at that time. I had never heard that Berlin was not the author. Is Jack the brother of Max? Who is your grandfather?

There was a Jacob Jacobs who was active in vaudeville and Broadway. Not sure about a connection with Irving Berlin, though.

Didn’t we have some poster a few years ago say the same thing about Glen Miller? Something along the lines of “My granddad was with him when he died in Paris brothel battling swamp Nazis” or some such? Does every family have super secret connections with pre WWII popular composers?

If that’s true, Chocolateart, you need to edit The Wikipedia entry. You will probably be asked for cites, so get those in order first.

Just went and looked up Alexander’s Ragtime Band on the ASCAP website.

https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx

I can’t reproduce the results in this page but if you go to the above link and put in Alexander’s Ragtime Band ASCAP will tell you the writer is Irving Berlin.

Nowhere is “Jack Jacobs” listed.

ASCAP licenses the song so I would think they have some say in this.

Not listed here either. Ben and Brad - In the Media - 'Alexander's Ragtime Band' at One Hundred

Now, is it possible that Irving Berlin purchased this song from someone else? I guess so. But we need more than just your say so, my honey lamb.

Found it

There’s a CERTAIN SIMILSRTY of style, too.

Well there’s your problem. The OP clearly said “Alexandra’s Rag Time Band”. Alex’s sister, perhaps.
Powers &8^]

Post #3. :smiley:

Folks, Chocolateart has left the building.

Perhaps because Dopers seemed to Seethru her Art? :smiley:

Not to revive a zombie thread, but it should be noted in reference to Berlin’s preference for the black keys that the pentatonic scale represented by the black keys is easier to compose in. This is due to the fact that two adjacent notes in the pentatonic scale are an auditorily pleasant interval, but are not in the diatonic (white keys) scale, or the chromatic (whole keyboard) scale.

In fact, you can play nearly random black keys and still have it sound like some sort of music. :wink:

It also turns out that much “oriental” and “cowboy” music is based on the pentatonic scale.

I’m glad you revived this zombie. In searching Cecil’s claim:

This claim is in Wikipedia, but the reference is back to Cecil’s column. If it’s anywhere else, non-self referential, it’s hard to find.

Personally, as a pianist, I find Cecil’s – or Irving’s – claim that it’s easier to hit the black keys without hitting wrong notes as nonsensical. The black keys are narrower, and harder to hit just right. And unless you limit your tune to the pentatonic scale, which Berlin did not do, you can only play one scale triad entirely on the black keys (F# major); all other triads require use of the white keys. In contrast, a diatonic composition on the white keys does not require the use of any black keys at all for the scale triads.

What? Two adjacent notes are not in the white keys scale? What are you talking about? Besides, the pentatonic scale can be played starting at any key on the keyboard, not just the black keys.

Not hard to find. The American Legends site makes the same claim, and that seems pretty well researched.

Many other sites say the same thing.

He’s saying that the intervals of the pentatonic scale are such that playing adjacent notes in this scale (two or three semitones/seconds or minor thirds) have a more pleasingly harmonious sound than playing adjacent notes in the diatonic scale (one or two semitones/diminished seconds or seconds) or chromatic scale (semitones/diminished seconds). Thus, any random note pairing in the pentatonic scale is going to have a high degree of harmony with each other.

Casting aside all questions of apparent likelihood, it is a pragmatic fact that self-taught musicians often play in extreme flat keys, i.e., mostly on the black keys. Noël Coward is another example. (He, too, wrote lyrics. And wrote plays. And composed full-on operettas. And wrote movies. And acted. And had a night-club act. And painted.)

I’ve also read that the black key thing was a popular “teach yourself piano in six easy lessons” sort of technique at the time Berlin was learning to play.

And he made Hitler’s hit-list. None too shabby.