I have always assumed that I would be a much more “hip” parent than mine ever were. I grew up in the 70’s and was a bit of a wild child so I thought i would be more in tune with my kids when they became teenagers. Now that they are, I feel like such an old fogey.
My 13 year old daughter had decided that some modified version of the Goth look is for her…thankfully without the tattoos and eyebrow piercings. I permitted her to dye her hair black at the beginning of the school year and when she’s not in school, she likes to wear black lipstick. Last week it was the over the knee black boots. I tried without much success to explain how they could be perceived as slutty and the only thing that made it ok for me was that they were not stilettos and she was unlikely to wear fishnet stockings and a mini skirt.
These days when you see how girls dress in the fashion magazines, I have completely lost sight of what is appropriate at what age. I’m not even sure I know what is slutty any more. So many things that were considered over the top when I was that age seems to be the norm today.
Today it is this… Kates Clothing | Alternative and Gothic Clothing, Footwear and More – Kate's Clothing. Now I had a leather jacket when I was 14 or so but it certainly wasn’t this dramatic. It doesn’t help that I actually really like a lot of the Goth clothing…black with buckles and chains and whatnot…but at nearly 50, a look that has passed me by. I recognize that my daughter is just trying to express herself and set herself apart from her peers but I hesitate to allow her to dress beyond her years. In terms of today’s teen is this style too old?
Probably. That type of stuff doesn’t usually show up until 15-16. Encourage her to work for items like that and see how much she really wants it. Out all the things to fight with a young teen about, clothing is way down on the priority list.
That looks like the outfit pinhead wore in Hellraiser. I don’t have kids but if i had a 13yo daughter i would be glad she wanted to wear that and goth make up rather than look like a whore.
I’m a big fan of parental people buying basic clothing staples (slightly adjusted to match fashionable trends and current passions) and then “helping” the kid find ways to finance the really out-there or hot-ticket items that constitute their current set of fashion passions.
I’m also a big fan of people of all ages finding fashion niches that they like and want to explore - at 13, she’s not got to worry about her fashion sense sabotaging her job hunting or college interviews just yet, so it can be a great age to experiment.
If she’s really interested in goth, then just remind her that people (especially grandparental-age-people) while usually kind and sweet to 13 year old girls, will probably have a hostile attitude towards a female pre-teen goth.
(that may backfire if she doesn’t like old ladies and gents tut-tutting over “how much she’s grown, looks like mom/dad, is just too grown-up for words,” etc.)
Tell her to avoid exposed Bs (boobs and butt) and she’ll be ok - everyone will think she’s totally unapproachable and over life and waaaay serious. If she does show out a little skin, bribe a 15 or 16 year old girl to tell her she looks cheap.
One note of caution for all things goth: If you catch her trying to bum a clove cigar, then come down hard! Those things are satan!
Choose your battles. Trying to restrict what she wears because “it’s slutty” smacks strongly of religious repression and weird close-mindedness. I am an advocate of letting kids pick their own clothing, as long as they’re legally covered. If she wants to have sex, she’s going to have sex whether you make her wear a burlap suit in public or not.
Shaming a very young teenager for dressing “like a slut” when she’s expressing her taste in clothing is setting her up for some very unpleasant headgames in the future. I seriously hope you haven’t used or that phrasing (or alluded to it) within earshot of her. If you think something is inappropriate or overly-revealing, call it that and make it off-limits under your roof. Don’t link the clothing she wants to wear with sexual promiscuity, good freaking lord.
My experience with goth types in school was that they were much *less *likely to be sexually promiscuous than the cute preppy girls wearing typical upper-middle-class-wear (fancy designer jeans, designer shoes, and tops emblazoned with Abercrombie &etc).
re: the jacket you linked, my only real concern is the price. 120 pounds?? It also only appears to come in adult sizes 10-20. Something in that style would be fine, in her size. How you would ever worry that a jacket could be slutty when it covers her from neck to ankles, or boots that cover her from knee to ankle, I have no freaking idea.
In my prejudiced and judgemental way (I seem to remember a thread about a woman worrying the parents of her kids schoolmates would judge her for a nose ring, so I seem to chime in on a lot of these things), I think it looks weird. But I’ve dated girls that have sported a similar aesthetic, so whatever.
I’m more weirded out when I see a 28 year old dressed like that than a 13 year old. Kids are supposed to try branching out from the dictates of their parent’s fashion. Nothing like wearing blue jeans around my immigrant mother and her parents at that age, and getting called “farmer” about 15 times a day…:rolleyes:
Is it slutty? This isn’t La Senza girl or something revealing…that jacket doesn’t look particularly form fitting. I would not equate it with slutty. If your greater fear is for some distaste of the goth look, then better she get it out of her system now than as an adult.
I can’t comment on the parenting part, but I can point out that any kid is too young for Goth. It’s not the going way to represent nonconformity anymore, and really hasn’t been since at least when I was in school.
Unless it’s making a comeback that I don’t know about, being an old fogey at 26.
I’d say it’s a very common age to start that sort of tribal look - it was when I was 13 (not a Goth, but some of my friends were) and it is for my daughter now, at 13. It doesn’t mean you have to say yes to clothes that are too sexualised, of course, because she might not be able to deal with the reactions she might get.
One thing I’ve been surprised by is how aware my daughter is of when it’s OK to wear the clothes she really likes. With a group of friends? Fine. On her own? No. Non-uniform day at school? She dresses pretty plainly.
What’s popular now with a subset of teens is ‘Gothmo’ and steampunk clothing. They don’t wear white face make-up or (except for some special occasions) dog collars.
I think it’s a neat coat but I wouldn’t buy anything so fancy and expensive for a kid who is still growing. I’d tell her to save her money up to buy it herself. I do think 13 is a little young for it, so by the time she saves up all the money, she’ll be old enough!
This, a thousand times. There will be enough people out there for your daughter’s whole life telling her she looks slutty, whorish, whatever no matter what she wears. You should be letting her know that you love her no matter what she wears, and you know that she’s a good person with a strong moral center - clothing doesn’t change that. You can and should certainly set standards for the amount of skin she can show at her age, but it’s about societal appropriateness for her age, not whether or not she looks “slutty”. I would also recommend against the teasing method, telling her you think her outfits look dumb or whatever, unless you already have a jokey relationship where she could say similar things back. If you think she looks dumb, just let it be. If she asks and you do think she looks dumb, just tell her it’s not to your taste or suggest a small tweak like a different color stockings rather than trashing her style. Why? I’m just not a fan of parents mocking teenagers. There’s too much of a power differential and the hormones are raging - things said now can take years to fade.
It seems like you’re already setting boundaries pretty well, since she wears the lipstick at home but not school and so forth. This is good. I think it’s better for parents of teenagers to set basic dress guidelines like time and place for make up, amount of exposed skin, what type of language can be written on shirts and such, without getting into purely aesthetic areas. So it’s fine for her to dress goth as long as she meets the same guidelines as another of your children at the same age, regardless of style.
You can also IMHO set requirements for how she dresses for special occasions like church, grandma’s house etc. I’d choose those occasions wisely though, and only pull that card when it actually matters. If you set the boundaries well, you’re teaching her how to dress for the occasion which is something a lot of people take a long time to learn. If your boundaries appear arbitrary to her, you’re doing the opposite and encouraging her to rebel against all concept of “appropriateness” which may set her up for poor dress choices later in life: “I’m grown up now, Mom can’t tell me not to wear bondage pants to a job interview!” Like in all things, make your parenting decisions based on the kind of adult you hope she’ll eventually be. You can’t really shape her future fashion tastes, but you can shape her decision making skills and self confidence.
Also as other posters mentioned, you have no obligation to buy her expensive clothing you don’t like. If she wants a long leather coat she can save up for it herself. This is another way to help her grow into the adult you want her to be. Don’t focus on whether you like the style of the coat, but whether it’s well made and if it’s a good bargain. Is there another brand or slightly different style that might be better? If she really wants it, how is she going to earn and save the money for it? Perfect learning to grow up stuff!
I don’t think the coat is slutty…it was the over the knee boots…depending on how they are worn, they most definately can look slutty. The coat was more a is she too young thing.
I also don’t think that my thinking certain clothing is slutty is religious or close-minded. Young teens wearing sexually inappropriate clothing is a valid concern for any parent.
She has always liked slinky fabrics and off the shoulder tops so it has always been a challenge to encourage her to dress her age. A lot of what she likes is not necessarily revealing, just what I think is an older look. She once stomped out of a store when I commented that a dress she liked looked like something Aunt Martha would wear, so I learned early on to keep those opinions to myself.
My point was that I really don’t know where the line in the sand is in defining what is appropriate for a girl that age to wear, whether it be sexually or simply age appropriate in terms of the style and fabric.
I think that there’s a world of difference between “that top is too tight, it’s inappropriate for your age” and “that top looks slutty”. In the first instance, you’re making a proper value judgment as a parent. In the second, you are saying something negative about her as a person.
I think that you’re on the right track, and maybe sitting down with a few magazines or googling outfits might help. Try to find examples of tops, skirts, pants, shorts and dresses that you consider appropriate versus inappropriate. Leave the “slutty” out of it. What makes a shirt not ok? Is it the neckline, a clinging cut, what? Figure that out and have a talk with her. You’ll have an easier time if you come up with standards that apply to “Aunt Martha” dresses, goth-wear or Abercrombie preppy stuff and let her pick the styles within your standards. Also, the standards are going to evolve as she gets older, so start thinking about what you think a 16 year old can wear that a 13 year old can’t.
Are we talkin’ Visigoths, or just any Nomads?
I agree, there are some definite issues with the way young teens are dressing, the Goth thing is just a faze, but I’d keep a close eye out for it, even a faze can get out of hand, and sometimes it’s not outgrown until it’s too late, next thing you know she’ll be pregnant, or on drugs, or even both.
My brother’s daughter is growing up fast, and while she has a very good grasp on what’s right and wrong and my bro is adamant that she won’t have too many typical teenage problems, the fact remains that the hormones haven’t yet kicked in. She’s a smart kid, and it’s terrifying to think what kinds of things she’ll be able to pull off behind his back :D.
Unless the girl’s goal is to look like a whore, I see nothing wrong with letting her know what her outfit makes her look like a whore. Hell, she may appreciate the heads-up, not realizing that she was looking differently in reality than she thought in her mind’s eye.
Presumably you’d let her know if her outfit clashed or if some shirt fit her terribly or something so why wouldn’t you let her know that her outfit was going to set a particular impression? Better to hear the warning from her mother than overhear it being whispered on the bus.
I mean, it’s pretty much a kid thing anyway. Let’s put it this way - once someone is 18 they are probably too old for “the Goth look”. If you’re 30 years old and still rockin’ the Goth look, it’s downright pathetic*. Fads like this have a very limited lifespan until the perpetrators grow up and realize how ridiculous they were. So if she’s a year or two ahead of the curve, that just means she’s maturing early.
*possible exemptions for rock stars and others who might make a living off cultivating a certain persona in that way
