The title says it all. My only experience with Afrocentrism is reading a few unflattering articles and that’s not good enough to form a solid opinion. If I’m incorrect, that’s fine, I don’t mind being shown the truth. Here’s what I’ve come to associate with the proponents of Afrocentrism.
Egypt gave birth to the Greek Civilization but white historians give all the credit to the Greeks.
They place a large importance on race. Many historical figures, from Babe Ruth to Plato, were actually black.
Have I gotten the wrong impression of Afrocentrism?
There ARE all kinds of legitimate reasons for studying ancient Egypt, and for delving into ancient African culture. They’re fascinating subjects in their own right, and yes, in some instances, they’ve been given short shrift by standard history texts, which often seem to take the position that history began in GReece.
And SOME of the assertions of Afrocentric scholars undoubtedly have some validity. For instance, it’s not a certainty by any means that the ancient Greek gods originated in Egypt… but even some important Greek historians (like Herodotus) thought this to be the case.
So, Afrocentric historians aren’t all crackpots. Some are serious scholars. Problem is, there ARE plenty of fruitcakes and charlatans who’ve embraced Afrocentrism, and have spread all kinds of idiotic fairy tales that they insist are true.
There is probably some merrit to this one at least…even the Greeks (IIRC) acknowledged that Egypt had some impact on their civilization (though probably not in the core things we think of when we think of Greek civilization, such as government).
Of course, the Greeks ALSO had an impact on later Egypt civilization (conquering it and all )…
My one contention here with the Afrocentrism crowd would be…how ‘black’ or even ‘African’ was ancient Egypt? I’d think they were more mediteranian in racial make up and their culture more home grown (i.e. not really influenced by mother Africa)…or perhaps influenced by other mediteranial cultures. After all, at least from memory, there were a lot of differenced between Egypt and the Numidian and other truely African civilizations that co-existed (not just racial differences).
My favorite one is Cleopatra. I remember an article Cecil did on this subject where he said the claim was made that Cleopatra (Greek ruler that she was) was ‘fat and black’.
Of Afrocentrism? No, not unless I have the same wrong impression. There ARE serious scholars who study the very real and important impact that Africa and the various African nations throughout history have had on the world. But my impression of the Afrocentrism crowd is they are mostly full of shit. Of course, I’ve only really looked at a few pamphlets, read Cecils article on it a few years ago, heard a lecture or two and of course been railed at by street corner preacher types spouting the Afrocentrism line…so perhaps I haven’t seen the whole story.
Insofar as we can asign a race to people 4000+ years ago Egyptians were not Negro or black by any standard.
There’s no real doubt about that. Egypt adopted their technology including writing and agriculture along with much of their culture from the people of the fertile crescent. As such they were culturally more Asian than African.
Of course the Greeks and other Mediterranean people also borrowed heavily from the people of the Fertile Cresecent. The most likely reason the Greeks attributed any of their culture to Egypt was that it was more palatable than attributing it to the Persians. In reality Persia and its predecessors were more likely sources.
Well, that’s somewhat helpful. Do you believe that Kemet was named so because of the black alluvial soil deposited by the Nile or was it in reference racial identity? Most of those links didn’t seem to be making any extra-ordinary claims. How mainstream is Afrocentrism and are you concerned that kooks may give it a bad name?
This is one of the better refutations of some of the more outrageous claims made by folks like Dr. Yosef A. A. ben-Jochannan and George G.M. James.
As a body of work challenging and re-examining anthropological assertions made over decades that systematically introduced racial bias into claims about “race” and exposed omissions about ancient peoples, I find afrocentrism to be a useful perspective in the search for knowledge. I find that the discipline is generally on stronger ground dealing with issues like the ancient Egyptians being black and making the case for West African exploration of the new world than “proving” Plato was black, or that Aesop the fabulist was black, or that Babe Ruth had something to hide. It is a young discipline, rife with fraudulent claims, but one that needs rigorous schlolastic standards and vetting rather than letting a fantastic assertions derail discussion and investigation.
The fact that you don’t find the claims particularly extraordinary does show how some Afrocentric assertions have gotten much more accepted over time, with increasing study and corroboration. Afrocentrism is slowly gaining more mainstream acceptance. I’m very concerned that less rigorous scholastic claims damage the discipline, in all levels of knowledge.
I say: Kemet was likely originally named for the land AND later, nonblack travellers also associated the name with the color with native people’s skin.
I hate to say it but even a broken clock is right twice a day and we’re not even sure if Afrocentrist were right about the racial make up of Kemet. As long as folks like Dr. Jochannan are serious representative of Afroncentrism I’m going to have to look at the movement with a great deal of skepticism. Thanks for your replies, Askia, I appreciate them.
And what exactly did you intend to say? You have a lot of references to largely unreferenced or at best controversial and partisan afrocentrist material.
What is your actual point here? If you are trying to claim that ancient Egyptians are racially Negroid then I will happily provide actual scientific evidence to the contrary.
If you are trying to argue that they are black then all I need do is point out that we have numerous colour pictures of them. They were not black skinned. There are ancient Egyptian paintings of captured black slaves and they are painted with black skin, quite different form the Egyptians.
It’s worth remembering a stopped clock is actually right about 48 times a day. It’s helpful to remember just because a given POV is standard and prevalent doesn’t mean it’s infalliably correct in all contexts.
Hell, I align myself with the discipline and I still look at it with a great deal of skepticism. Glad I could help.
Before I waste my time with your condescension, how about you tell me what your position is? Are you claiming that ancient Egyptians were racially Negroid? Is this something that Afrocentrists normally believe? If so then it seems very easy to falsify At least this aspect of Afrocentrism and anything based upon it.
It is rather difficult for any human to be of a linguistic “stock.”
As the obvious location of crossroads of human migration between Africa and Asia, (and the Mediterranean region beyond), I suspect that any effort to claim the dwellers of the lower Nile valley for any particular “racial” identity is going to result in a lot of people pointing to murky interpretations of ancient paintings and the occasional misleading text resulting in no changes in the perspective of anyone entering the fray.
I found this article that kind of touches on the whole ‘were ancient Egyptians black’ theme. Basically (since there really isn’t any such thing as ‘race’) its bullshit to make a racial claim about them one way or the other.
‘“Race is a social construct, not a scientific classification,” Robert S. Schwartz, M.D. wrote’. I think this cuts to the heart of the OP. If Afrocentric followers are claiming Egypt was ‘Black’ or of this ‘stock’ or that, then they aren’t exactly following scientific classifications here…they are going more based on social convention or perhaps even emotion. This would tend to at the very least throw Afrocentrism into a more psudo-scientific role I would think.
And the whole ‘Cleopatra was fat and black’ thing just makes it funny to boot!
To me, the biggest claim against Afrocentrism is that Afrocentric people don’t consider many Africans as “real Africans”. Apparently all those dark-brown people north of the Sahara are aliens from outer space, including the Egyptians.
Quote from an Egyptian graduate student in the US: “He wants to steal my foreparents, he claims I’m not from where I’m from, and I don’t really know which part pisses me more!”
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