Is Amanda Palmer wrong to solicit volunteer musicians?

Cafe Society
1

Amanda Palmer is a musician best known as half of the Dresden Dolls who has been at the forefront of using social media to connect with fans and get paid for her music. She financed her latest record via a Kickstarter campaign that was the first to raise $1 million.

Now she’s out on tour supporting that record and she has found herself in a bit of controversy. Extending her whole crowdsourcing thing, she and her band are soliciting fans who play horns or strings to show up, learn some really easy parts, and play with her at the show. They don’t get paid for this, except in “beer and hugs”.

Musicians, both union and not, have come out to say this is wrong and that if she wants musicians she should pay for them. People who play for a living know that everyone expects you to jump at the chance to play for free “for the exposure”, and how annoying that can get. Even if Palmer’s volunteers are not pros who do paying gigs, they’re denying paying gigs to people who could do it. Palmer says that there just isn’t money in the budget to have full strings and horns at every show, so it’s this or nothing.

I’m posting this because I’ve had about six opinions since I first read about it. As a fan and musician, if she happened to need a guitarist for some reason I’d jump at the chance. Heck, I’m generally pleasantly surprised when I actually get beer for playing. And I agree with Palmer when she says that you have to let artists choose how they share their talent and time.

Then again, Palmer got an enormous influx of cash to make this record directly from her fans, who didn’t have to spend that money to hear it. (I didn’t fund the Kickstarter campaign, and I’ve listened to the record on Spotify.) And while I’m sure her artist fee is not as much as it could be, since her ticket prices are very reasonable and her fans are fairly devoted, I’m sure she’s seeing a good payday from the tour. It seems pretty shitty to turn around on top of that and expect people to play for free.

And maybe this shouldn’t change things, but I think it does for me–Amanda happens to be married to Neil Gaiman, and is thus far from hurting financially. So her complaints that they just can’t afford to pay real musicians fall a little flat. Not that I expect her to give her talent away for free either, but it makes me feel like she could come up off some money if she really wanted to.

In her missive about the controversy she says that they have “crowdsourced” food in some places, where fans have spent their own money on groceries and cooked for Amanda and the band. That’s great if you’re broke and touring on a shoestring, but it’s been years since that was true of her. And again, she’s loaded, so it seems tacky to not at least offer to compensate people for the groceries, if not the time.

It’s not exactly something I’d get worked up about, especially because I like the idea. But she’s not touring in a shitty van and sleeping on her fans’ couches anymore.

2

I know nothing about her except what I just read on wikipedia and what you’ve written here. It seems clear that she has no problem asking others to give their talent away for free; does she ever do the same?

3

I’ve also had about six different opinions on this since it started being discussed.

I do feel that musicians should be paid for their work, of course. But I think things are a bit different in this case.

The main issue is that this is not taking place in a vacuum - it is part and parcel of the way Amanda Palmer has worked her career, which has involved a lot of doing gigs for free herself, as well as getting others to contribute to her shows, rewarding those contributions in all sorts of ways, and creating an environment where the audience is part of the experience.

The Dresden Dolls always invited performers in each town to join them - whether jugglers, acrobats, singers, whatever. They weren’t paid either, and it often made for an unpredictable show, but that’s always been part of the appeal.

And the reality is that - whether muso’s SHOULD be paid for doing this - if there are people happy to answer her call for volunteers just because of the fun of getting up on stage and being part of the show, then why not? Musicians - especially those who aren’t calling the shots, such as session players or support acts - are often underpaid, to the extent that they sometimes lose money to do what they do. It often costs money to be on the road as a support act, but you do it for the exposure and for the experience (and sometimes the pleasure of playing with people you admire). Hell, in the UK, bands often have to “buy in” and actually PAY to be the support act. I’m involved with managing a band that’s on the road at the moment supporting a successful, well-known US band, and the cost of the travel and accommodation alone is far more than the very token fee that they receive per show. But it’s a great opportunity, wonderful exposure, and probably a lot of fun, so they do it. I don’t see this as being much different, except instead of coming out behind financially, the musicians she’ll be playing with get food and beer and the experience of hanging out with Amanda Palmer and being a part of the circus. No-one will answer her call that doesn’t want to do it, and I bet loads will.

I also think this is being brought to people’s attention simply because Amanda Palmer has been so successful in her crowd-sourcing that people are starting to view her as less the underdog fighting against the record company system, than a bit of a mogul herself. But don’t forget that out of the million or so she raised for the album, the profit will be closer to a hundred grand. (She did a blog post somewhere with the exact numbers). Nothing to be sneezed at, but making a hundred grand from an album (and you can do an album, what, every 2 years?) is hardly even setting her up for life. That’s a nice income for a couple of years, but if she has any sense she will still be budgeting her tours very carefully.

All that being said, she could probably offer them a token fee (even say $100 per performance or something) and there’s no way it would cost her $35,000, or whatever she said it would. But she’s chosen to go this route instead, and despite the ruckus amongst the mainstream media, I don’t think it will make a lick of difference to the people that love her and are going to the shows, and are making her rich, because as I said it’s not a one-off act of her taking something and not giving back - it’s part of an ongoing interaction Amanda Palmer has with her followers and audience where she includes them in her record making, performances and general life, and seems to give a lot back as well. Even just the fact that she does free gigs in nearly every town she goes to, and offers her album as a “pay what you want even if it’s nothing” download on her site, shows that this is someone who’s not just out there to take from her supporters, but is giving us much as she gets.

4

If she wants to make an offer, and other people want to accept it, it’s nobody’s business but the involved parties’.

5

I don’t know, Apple computers could probably find some people to staff their Apple stores for free too since their cult is so big. Would that be right?

6

Well, Steve Albini’s major beef seemed to be that what she allegedly spent the money on was way out of line with what those things should have cost. He’s been around the music business long enough that I think he oughta know. I don’t think he’s saying she just pocketed the money, but she certainly didn’t get a very good return for it. But seeing as how ridiculously loose she was being with money for everything else on this tour/album project, cheaping out on actually paying musicians seems tacky.

7

Ever since she split from the dresden dolls, I find myself liking her less and less.

8

I’ve never heard of Amanda Palmer before, but this is breathtakingly rude (putting aside whether it is “right” or legal). It’s simply taking advantage of peoples’ good intentions for an ego stroke, and that kind of thing never ends well.

It reminds me of some job ads I remember from when the dot-com bubble burst - “Join our great project! We can’t pay you, but it’ll look great on your resume!”

Actually, it reminds me even more of how the brides treat their bridal party on Bridezillas.

9

Huh? Of course she pocketed the money. Where else would it go? That’s the whole point of the crowd-funding exercise - raising as much money as possible to fund her career, by offering lots of different rewards of different value that hopefully brings you out ahead financially. And nothing wrong with that.

It’s called an internship, and it’s a pretty standard model for getting to work with a highly sough-after company. Is it right? Well, I dunno. It’s how I got my job in the music industry, and although it didn’t thrill me to work for free for a while, I decided it was worth it. I ended up with a well paying, fulfilling job out of it, so for me it was the right path to take. Doesn’t always work that way of course, but it doesn’t make people wrong for offering them or for taking them up.

10

To quote myself from another forum I post on:

The problem is, I think, that she views herself as just another fan, when in fact she’s the CEO, who’s been bankrolled quite generously by those fans.

Playing for free, helping each other out, and having fun is all well and good. But, when you’ve broken out, and are pulling in a living out of the pockets of your fans, to make the choice to not give some back is just kind of dickish.

Yes, people play for free for all the reasons she mentioned, but with the goal of ultimately, eventually, making some money. She has an opportunity (some might say responsibility) to help some people have a small taste of that goal, but is choosing to rely on the goodwill of others instead of extending her goodwill towards others.

11

This doesn’t bother me, The locals can always refuse or decline to play. She can hire musicians at those venues where she can’t get freebies, and pound sand if she doesn’t like it. I met Palmer once after a small show in 2002-2003, and she seemed like a pleasant, genuine person. For a lot of home, amateur, or semi-pros in their early career, playing with Palmer would be a nice bit of exposure. Particularly in today’s age of documenting and sharing everything. You can be damn sure that If I played with her it’d be all over my social media and pretty much everywhere I could cross post it.

12

Sort of. For some, the money itself is the ultimate goal; for most that I’ve met and played, with the goal is to make enough money to not have to do anything else. There is a difference there; it’s subtle but important. So long as Palmer, (or her representatives) are not messing about with the ability of the volunteers to use the opportunity for exposure then I can’t see the harm. If for example, they demanded that I take down my youtube video of me playing along with her, I’d feel differently.

13

She’s drawing a brighter line on the terms of fandom. You have to decide if it’s clubby punk inclusion or unneeded exploitation. I don’t have enough dog in the hunt regarding AP to take a position. I could really see my position varying based on the artist and the circumstances.

14

There are laws (at least in the US) about unpaid internships though - they’re supposed to be for the educational benefit of the intern, not just a way to provide unpaid labor for the employer.

(I know it hasn’t/doesn’t always work that way, which has led to at least one high profile lawsuit recently.)

15

I read from some fans who attended her shows where she did this, that she doesn’t even individually introduce the volunteer musicians that are playing with her. If that’s the case, and these people are doing this in part for the exposure, sounds like that aspect is defeating their purpose.

16

Why wouldn’t it be?

17

Not going to discuss the rest of this, but this bit is bullshit. She could be married to Warren Buffet and it wouldn’t have any bearing, she’s her own person.

18

Hipsternomics?

19

Is Neil Gaiman even all that rich? He’s a successful comic book and fantasy author, but neither of those fields are know for being especially rewarding, financially.

20

If I had ever had the chance to play even the cowbell on stage with The Beatles, I would be riding on a cloud to this day.

If you are a huge fan and just want to say you played on stage with [fill in blank of name of rock group], you won’t give a damn about payments or anything else. If someone chooses to do so, for no money or personal acknowledgment, more power to them.

BTW, I would also gladly be just one of the Hobbits, for no pay or film credit whatsoever, in the upcoming film! Sometimes you do things just because you want to be a part of something bigger, and for the fun of it!