This is arguably more of a GQ but I’ll post it in GD because
1- there’s apt to be disagreement about the answer
2- the subject matter is often inflammatory
At least since Desert Shield numerous pundits and presidents named Bush have quoted Islamic sources as referring to America as "thegreatSatan (as opposed, presumably, to “the average Satan” or the “not really up to snuff Satan”). Invariably the word “Satan” is capitalized, implying the biblical entity (aka Baal-zebub, Lucifer, Sammael, Old Nick, Martha Stewart, the Horned One, etc.).
My understanding is that the Arabic word “al-shaitan” merely means “enemy”, while the Arabic name for the entity known to English speaking Christians as Satan is “al-Iblis”. In which context is America being referred to: “America is the great enemy” or, literally, “America is the devil”? Since Islam definitely conceives as Satan (as Christians call him) as a real physical entity, it seems illogical they would refer to a land as being synonymous with him unless they are being hyperbolous, which also seems less than likely. OTOH, I do not speak Arabic and am unable to check the source.
Frankly, I’m not too concerned about what the Islamic extremists call us when they try to kill us. It is sufficient to know that they want to kill us. Would you advocate a diffent strategy in dealing with then if they called us “enemy” as opposed to “satan”?
Sampiro never mentioned politics, 'e was just asking an interesting question. I think the attitude that ‘understanding more about terrorist attackers, suicide bombers, and other violent religious extremists is useless’ is a very limited view. “It is sufficient to know that they want to kill us” suggests that knowing why they want to kill us is irrelevant. Just because the question isn’t more along the lines of, “How can we better kill them before they kill us?” is no reason to dismiss it offhandedly.
The etymologies on the dictionary.comentry for “satan” are sort of interesting, though they don’t really answer the OP. That’s about all I have.
I think this is a valid line of questioning. If there is a widespread belief among the world’s Muslims that the US is associated with genuine demonic powers it is a key factor in understanding the terrorist threat and the difficulties in the overall relationship.
I’ve always understood the US as “Great Satan” because we are now bascially(sorry EUer’s) the most powerful and influential country in Western civilization, the largest embodiment of the morally bankrupt west. So Europe will be only an average Satan, bad yes, but not really a threat to fundamentalist Islamic way of life. Every fundy needs an enemy or example of what not to do. I don’t believe many Muslims actually thinkSatan resides somewhere in Oklahoma, rather that Americans carry out his work on earth, much as they themselves are here to carry out God’s work. Kind of a modern Gamorrah, with sodomites running loose, women shamelessly baring their ankles, and men blending wool and linen textiles with no sense of guilt. In the bible, “enemies” are often noted for their “wickedness” i.e. devience from Jewish cultural norms. This helps to distance the group you are killing from their humanity, it’ a normal psychological tool. The US is the whore of Babylon, we are the Nero’s Rome, a corrupt, decaying center of power with comparatively undue influence in world affairs. Just a WAG. Satan and enemy are synonyms, you’re not going to cast your enemy in a good light, right?
I can’t cite it just offhand, but I have been led to believe that the problem here is not only our secular way of life… but the fact that our particular way of life is so damn tempting.
I recall an episode of 60 Minutes in which it was pointed out that the most popular TV show in Saudi Arabia at one point was “Baywatch.” It was not shown on any Arab TV networks, but it was freely available on satellite… and a LOT of Saudis got those little portable satellite dishes specifically to watch American TV broadcasts.
Now, the idea here is that one should resist temptation, certainly, and that one should adhere to the tenets of one’s religious beliefs. In Saudi Arabia, a woman is supposed to be covered, and a man is not supposed to look at her. But when one is watching “Baywatch,” the whole POINT is to look at Pam Anderson’s bobbling boobies, not to mention the rest of her.
I mean, we export a LOT of our culture, for profit… and the point of a lot of the culture we export is that… well… it’s fun. Fun is the point behind a LOT of our broadcasts and entertainment structures.
…and when they’re fun… and tempting… and fulla forbidden fruit… well… can you BLAME certain wild-eyed Islamic clerics for accusing us of being Satan, in a metaphorical sense? We see nothing wrong with it, we indulge in it more or less constantly (from their point of view), and we export it EVERYWHERE, apparently hoping that someday, EVERYONE will be an American… or at least, WANT to be. And in order to really do that, some might say, one must reject Islam (at least, the more orthodox versions of it). I mean, how can you watch American TV WITHOUT looking at uncovered women?
Lookin’ at it THAT way, no WONDER some of 'em hate us.
Slight hijack: Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran is generally credited with first use of the term, around the time of the hostage crisis in '79.
Re: the OP’s question, it would indeed be interesting to know what term was used in the original Arabic. Sounds like a job for, dare I say it, Aldebaran, but he doesn’t seem to have been around much lately.
I passed this around the office this morning. Here is the SD…
In normal MSA (Modern Spoken Arabic) the term used is would be translated as ‘great evil spirit’ or ‘great evil-doer’ in Bush-speak. Another word would most commonly be used for ‘great enemy.’
That being said the two concepts run together.
However, neither is the same as ‘great captial-S-for-a-proper-name Satan.’
That was very inetersing. I think a lot of intricacies go down staright to language and its interpretation. Bush choses the route of employing a great deal of biblycal and religion-based terminology in his statements. It’s very interesting how he pulls in linguistic forms used by those he opposes and re-interprets them for his own use. Wouldn’t it be so much weaker for him to say “America is considered by them to be the great enemy” than to say “America is considered to be the Great Satan”.
“[Americans] are the great Satan, the wounded snake.” - Ayatollah Khomeini
If you are trying to incite a strongly religious people (say, the Muslims who lived in the Ayatollah’s reign), what better way than to demonize the enemy as not just being evil, but being in alliance with the great evil himself?
No hijack at all. This does rasie the question as to whether the “Great Satan” in Farsi means the same as in Arabic. I’m presuming that Khomeini mostly spoke in Farsi, although perhaps not.
MY officemates inform me that the term used on the Iranian TV is in Arabic. Why this should be is a mystery. Still, they said in Arabic the term means an evil spirit, or a demon.
It could be there’s another aspect to calling the West (the states) satan. Satan is the Great Deceiver, no? What else would you call someone who promises one thing and delivers another?
:dubious: C’mon, as much as you’d like it to be rational and pollitical, you and I both know the Mohamedean/Christian mutual enmity goes back way before Bush :rolleyes:
The addition “great” in this context to describe something like
“which is the most visible, most dangerous and vile of all evilish/devilish/satanic you can think of”
There is no use of capital letters in Arabic.
The capitalisation is an addition that comes with the translation and thereby adaptation to Western/Christian understanding of the concept “evil”.
sjaitaan is mostly translated as “satan”. Can also be translated as devil/fiend and is also translated in some languages as demon (although I would never do that.)
sjaitaan expresses the concept of evil/devil/satan in its visible form.
Iblis is in Al Qur’an the name of what is known as the fallen angel.
It thus expresses the abstract of the concept of evil/devil/satan . Like for example Lucifer.
Hence the USA is referred to as the materialisation of evil/devil/satan by the use of the word sjaitaan.
As such the USA is indeed described as the “enemy” of the muslims because the devastating influence and the danger that comes with the materialisation of satan is something one must fight against and try to avoid to come in contact with.
When you place the use of the word in this context (= materialisaton of evil) you can also understand the use of it by those who attack/warn against Western influence on Muslim societies in general.
“Satan” in Jewish Scripture means something like “accuser”. Is there any implication of this in Farsi or Arabic? Or are they just saying “America is the worst enemy we’ve got”?
FWIW, Khomeini spoke of America as the Great Satan, but I thought the USSR was in second place. The “Miss Congeniality Satan”.
