Is anyone planning on sticking with Windows 10 and exercising prudence while taking their chances?

In My Humble Opinion
81

OK, yeah, if you’re on Windows 11 the same rule of running an up to date browser applies, it is just much easier to comply with. Just running Microsoft Edge and letting Windows Update keep it fresh is going to be good enough.

And yet, the CVE list is huge. Of course that is not an indicator of problems, it is an indicator of found problems, so isn’t directly comparable to Firefox or Safari. It seems like 1 out of 2 security updates I get is for chromium, which is an indicator of fixed problems.

I switched from Plex to Jellyfin when I upgraded my media server from a 10+ year old Optiplex (looked just like @wolfpup 's picture) to an 8 year old gaming PC with a fancy (in 2016) GPU for transcoding. Plex required a subscription for hardware based transcoding, but it’s free on Jellyfin. I am not a big user of either, but other than the lack of a .plexignore style mechanism on Jellyfin, it’s worked fine for my light usage.

82

Looks nice, but then I’d have to replace my 4 2TB drives of mirrored raid storage and then…

It never ends. :slight_smile:

Most of my friends are using Plex, and all are comparatively early adopters with lifetime memberships. So while I’m sure we could try Jellyfin, it’s also FAIR to give Plex the $$$ since I’ve been using it for years on the free version. It was more the FYI rather than an indictment of Plex.

83

It’s probably because of these modern programs that browsers are safer today. Between Google’s own Project Zero, bug bounties, responsible disclosure guidelines, hacker competitions, etc., we’re finding and fixing more bugs than ever, often before the black hat hackers do.

You were probably around in the 2000s, right? Widespread zero days and viruses frequently affected IE, ActiveX, Java applets, Outlook web views, etc. They’re not quite as common today.

Today it’s far rarer, and usually takes state level (as in security agency) resources to find major new exploitable issues.

It’ll always be an arms race, but at least Google (and Microsoft today) takes security way more seriously.

84

I didn’t suppose it was safer. I don’t like Edge or Chrome for mega-corporate reasons, Firefox has desirable heredity but always seems a little off to me; I suppose I could try it again. As for Safari, since that’s an Apple product I didn’t think it would run on Windows.

85

Yeah, that was my point about a bunch of CVEs being an indicator of found problems. People are looking and reporting. Google is following up by fixing them. It is definitely a moving target for any attackers.

And Microsoft was ever a security nightmare for such a long time. Hey, let’s download code from the Internet and run it in a leaky sandbox! Fortunately Microsoft has gotten much better at security.

The problem is that they’ve tied ongoing security to increased surveillance and advertising. Expecting old OSes to be supported forever is unrealistic, but 11 is mostly just an upgrade for Microsoft, not for the end user. Dropping 10 is inevitable, and reasonable, but also has the nice (for them) side effect of pushing people to the new platform with more advertising opportunities built in.

I agree, but I probably streamed stuff from my Plex server a few times per year, so it just wasn’t worth paying for.

86

And I stream stuff from Plex (not always from -my- server) probably 3-5 times a week or more, often for long periods. Yeah, they earned my business, but for your needs? No, I wouldn’t pay for it.

87

I’m surprised it hasn’t come up yet, but for all the people with officially unsupported hardware for Windows 11, there’s an easy solution with a little free tool called Rufus:

I just yesterday did a fresh install of Windows 11 with a thumb drive created with Rufus on a ca. 10 years old laptop, and it worked flawlessly. After downloading the latest updates after install, I now have a working machine with Windows 11 24H2. I’ve done this with a similarly old machine last year with the same results. People say there’s no guarantee that MS will continue to allow this loophole forever, but at least Win 10 users who don’t want to buy new hardware and keep their OS up to date can buy some more time with this option.

88

AIUI, MS is closing that loophole literally this month.

89

Do you have a link? Does that mean that old machines updated that way to Win 11 will get no further updates?

90

I’m not sure. AIUI …

The underlying point is that for security reasons, Win11 was originally designed to require TPM2.0 in the hardware. Regardless of the CPU performance, RAM size, etc., if the hardware lacks a TPM2.0 module, no install for you.

MSFT then backtracked with the early Win11, that you could, with some fiddling, use an approved workaround to bypass the TPM 2.0 check. Your machine would be less secure than Win11 was supposed to be, but potentially better than Win10 was / is.

Anyhow, WIn11 has now been out enough years that a heck of a lot more TPM2.0 machines are out there. So they’re closing the workaround.

AIUI, this only affects the ability to install Win11; not to update it as time goes on. But as long as your hardware isn’t TPM2.0 you’re still running a less-secure system than was intended. Whether that reduced amount of safety is “safe enough” is beyond my expertise.

91

Which shows some are still open, and some are closed, and Microsoft keeps working to close the workarounds. Especially for much older systems, I would hesitate. If you’re just barely out of spec, well, fewer issues depending on your system.

92

While I stand by everything I’ve previously said, this discussion has made me think more about planning for the inevitable, so I checked the Dell site and the Optiplex desktop line still exists and there are some reasonably priced new models.

One of the problems i have with the Modern World is that there’s a fundamental disconnect between the way I use computers and the throw-away mentality of the kids that control our digital technology.

The thinking seems to be something like: “Your OS is obsolete and no longer supported, and your computer hardware is old anyway, so just get a new computer”.

I’ll cast this in different terms. Suppose you’re living in a 200-year-old house, built by your ancestors, expanded by your great-grandparents and your grandparents and then your parents. You grew up in it. Additions to it were built. It contains the accumulated memorabilia of your life, nooks and crannies into which invaluable possessions are tucked.

And suddenly, you’re told that you have to move, but, no problem, you’ll get fair market value and can build a brand new house!

Yeah, it’s something like that. When Windows 7 was first released, I understood that it had to be my next platform. I avoided Vista like the plague. So I installed Win7 on a laptop I had, and used it as a sandbox to migrate my applications. Which I did. The process took about three months. It involved apps that would no longer work, or wouldn’t work correctly, and that either had to be updated or entirely replaced.

Is buying a new desktop computer with Windows 11 going to be the same? No. It will be worse. Because there are also now going to be hardware incompatibilities, like the absence of at least two USB 3 ports on the front panel of the current Optiplex (sure, there are several, but one is fancy-pants USB-C) or the absence of a compatible display interface with the same goddam Dell Ultrasharp monitor I bought only a few years ago from the same goddam company that makes the goddam computer that’s incompatible with it.

It brings a whole new meaning to “kids these days”. I was designing large-scale software systems before they were even born, and now they’re ruining my life! /<end rant>

93

There actually was a Safari for Windows, but Apple deprecated it in 2010. I assume the usage was so low it wasn’t worth it.

94

What’s missing? My recent Dell U monitors have some combination of DisplayPort, HDMI, or USB-C inputs all of which are current. Even DVI works with a $10 adapter.

95

I’ve always used Firefox. There’s an update (seems like) two or three times per month.

96

I’ve had to do a few jobs remoting in to Windows 11 PCs and the new UI baffles me (I.E Having to select “Reveal more” just get options on dealing with a file). I’ll be staying with Win 10 as long as I can. My wife is currently recommending that I upgrade to a Bazzite linux build which is evidently very friendly with Windows applications, but as someone who occasionally opens up Games I can’t imagine going off Windows.

Even if Bazzite is improved I can only imagine the performance penalties that might come with it for a Game designed for Windows.

97

I plan to pay for the updates and hold out hopefully for Windows 12. It seems Microsoft likes to fuck about with every other release. Win XP was decent, Vista sucked. Win 7 was OK, 8 was a huge WTF. Win 10 has been alright but windows 11 was full of stupid shit decisions, like not allowing the Taskbar to move and forcing extra menu layers.

If you look at the adoption rates, you’ll see the pattern holds true. Vista and 8 stagnated even after MS tried to force people to it. 7 and 10 adoption rates were much higher much earlier.

It’s worth it for me to pay and hold out.

98

It’s a Dell U2412M. It has connections for DVI, VGA, and DisplayPort. It’s currently connected via VGA since that was the cable I had from the previous computer. Looks like DisplayPort is the one common element with the new Optiplex, unless I get the optional video port which includes some extra stuff including VGA.

So instead of having 34,832,432 problems to worry about in migrating to a new computer, I’ll only have 34,832,431 problems, after I buy a DisplayPort cable.

Did I mention that I hate Kids These Days and all their new-fangled crap? :face_with_monocle:

Anyway, a new Optiplex is only in the “beginning to think about” stage. The conversion process is absolutely daunting. If a brand new Optiplex with Windows 11 arrived here today, for free, I’d just put it in the corner and curse it heartily.

99

I completely agree, and the history of alternating between “OK” and “complete shit” goes back even further.

Additionally, new Windows releases come with added user inconvenience (at no extra charge!). Windows XP, a terrific OS following the disaster of Windows ME, introduced the concept of online activation for the first time. Having a product key was no longer good enough. And at some point after Windows 7, internet access and a “Microsoft account” was needed for the privilege of being allowed to set up the OS that you bought and paid for.* It gets worse and worse with every OS generation, yet you can’t remain with an old OS indefinitely because Microsoft drags the whole industry along with it.

* I haven’t tried this, but apparently you can bypass the requirement to be online during Win11 setup by going into the command prompt via Shift+F10 and typing OOBE\BYPASSNRO. This supposedly will reboot and resume setup with the “I don’t have internet” option available. Why wasn’t it available in the first place?

100

As an aside, DP is fully digital and will likely give you a sharper image with less artifacting.

This is my primary monitor: