Is Barry Bonds criticism undeserved?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m a baseball fan. I live in the SF Bay area. But I do not follow the Giants, I follow the A’s. From what I have read over the years regarding Barry Bonds, he has a reputation ranging from “aloof” to “surly”. Today I read an article comparing him to Roger Maris, which stated that many people are hoping that he does not break Mark McGwire’s record.

Maybe those more in the know regarding Bonds can tell me why he has this reputation, and whether or not he deserves it. I have observed the following criticisms of Bonds over the years (commentary added):

He doesn’t like to give interviews/isn’t media-friendly

To which I say, so what. I’d probably be annoyed with reporters probing every nuance of my game. Sure, I’d probably play nice with them and exhibit a bit more patience, but I will not hold it against the man if he just doesn’t want to deal with them.

He doesn’t hustle enough running the bases

True enough, but what player doesn’t have a weakness? Sure, he might cost his team 5-6 runs per year because he occasionally dogs it running to first, but he more than makes up for it in just about every other regard. I don’t hear people criticising Icharo for having no plate discipline, or Mark McGwire for having no speed and limited defensive range. No player, save perhaps Joe Morgan or Honus Wagner, is perfect.

He hasn’t delivered in the post-season
His post-season record sucks. But I think the sample-size of his post-season appearances is woefully inadequate to draw any conclusions from.

Is there something I am missing here? No baseball fans I know dislike Barry Bonds. It’s not like he’s Albert Belle or Ty Cobb. I suspect that he has this reputation because sportswriters do not like him, and he does not like sportswriters. Am I missing something here? Those more familiar with him are invited to fill me in as to why he has this reputation.

2

As you point out, the guy has never done anything but look out for himself. Now that he is getting this attention, Bonds is trying to improve his image (did you see that post game media session he did with his daughter?) Bonds is arrogant and self-centred, and he has a long way to go if he wants to change his image. He is also a great baseball player (playoff not withstanding) but sports media has a long, long memory, and is’t ready to call him nice yet.

3

I’ve wondered the same thing, zuma. I’ve seen a lot of conclusory statements that “Bonds is arrogant,” or “Bonds is disliked by his teammates,” but I’ve never heard any evidence to support the conclusions. Are there any anecdotes out there which would support the idea that Bonds is an ass?

I sometimes wonder if Bonds’s reputation isn’t at least partly manufactured by members of the media who are angry that Bonds won’t give them the time of day.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m still waiting to hear some actual evidence before I decide not to like the guy.

4

I like Barry Bonds. He doesn’t care too very much for sportswriters, supposedly, because the sportswriters treated his father (Bobby) like crap. I remember Bobby Bonds and he wasn’t treated too well by the sportwriters.

5

A lot is warranted. Talking to reporters isn’t too big, but dogging it is. He has also been seen to watch an opponent’s fly ball he thought was out hit the wall while he stayed where he was. There are a number of criticisms of Ichiro’s plate discipline and relatively low OBP out there. ANd there is a difference between those who cannot run (McGwire) but who give 100% and those who are just lazy and don’t try at times. (Bonds)

How many postseason games does he need before it becomes significant? 23 games in 4 years, never hitting over .261, with 1 HR and 5 RBI in 80 AB, with more Ks than hits - shortstop numbers, and I don't mean Aurilia. Maybe if they ever got out of the first round....

Hustle counts for something. We work hard to get the money for the tickets, if he doesn’t work hard he deserves to be booed.

6

**

Uh, I did not say that. Re-read my OP.

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No, I did not. Please fill me in.

**

OK, arrogant and self-centered… please provide examples. I am not trying to challenge or refute you, I’m just curious as to why he has a reputation of being disliked. Why is he arrogant and self-centered?

7

OK, I tend to agree with you regarding his laziness… as I said I have not really followed him. If this is true, he deserves criticism, but how much has his laziness hurt his team vs. how much his incredible prowess in every other aspect of the game helped his team?

And I don’t think 80 at bats is anywhere near being a decent sample size to draw any conclusions from. Give him a measly four more hits and he’s batting a respectable .313.

8

How do you know? Because the media told you so.

Snicker.

I’m frankly skeptical of virtually all criticism levelled his way, because it never seems to be substantiated by anything.

He’s self-centred? Big deal. Show me the evidence.

He’s got a bad playoff record? 80 at bats, whoop dee doo. Willie Mays had a bad playoff record, too. Wade Boggs hit .273 in the postseason. Mike Schmidt hit .236 with minimal power.

He doesn’t hustle? Crap; he hustles as much as any other player. Every baseball player I have ever seen dogs it on a regular basis, except maybe Pete Rose. I regularly see every ballplayer pull up short on routine grounders and pause to watch their home runs. Roberto Alomar pulls up on virtually every grounder he hits, but nobody says anything because right now he’s a Good Guy. Bonds hustles just as much as anyone else.

He’s lazy? That’s a complete lie; Bonds is one of the hardest working men in sports. You don’t think he’s playing this way at 37 years old because he’s not working hard, do you? He trains and practices harder than anyone.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RickJay *
**

RickJay, are you kidding?

Read this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2001/08/21/life_of_reilly/

No one’s crying for the media – Bonds deserved to be chastised all day and all night strictly on his isolation from his teammates. He can’t deign himself to show up for the team picture? He has to have his own special private locker-room (I wouldn’t begrudge him this so much if teammates were allowed to hang out in there)? Absurd and wrong on his part. Barry Bonds acts wrong.

That said, his lowness as a person should usually be considered separately from his worth as a player. I have no problem with him breaking McGwire’s record, and Barry Bonds should be a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer.

But he’s still a jerk to other human beings at inappropriate times. And Bonds deserves to be called on it ad infinitum. He’s made his own bed – he can lie in it.

10

I read that article. All it did was illustrate that the media hates Bonds.

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RickJay *
**
He’s got a bad playoff record? 80 at bats, whoop dee doo. Willie Mays had a bad playoff record, too. Wade Boggs hit .273 in the postseason. Mike Schmidt hit .236 with minimal power. **

And Boggs .273 slugging .383 beats .200 and .287. Mays .247/.337 beats it too, and 3 of his 6 postseason series were in his last 3 years, when his skills had declined. And Schmidt had more postseason power too twice the HR/ab rate, and a .386 slugging beats .287 badly.

**

Just not true. Unless the only other guy is Henderson.

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They why is he the only one with this rep? Eddie Murray was hated by the writers, Albert Belle too, even more than Bonds. Belle hit a writer with a thrown ball. Why were they not accused of dogging it? They didn’t. Bonds does.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bordelond *
**

Nope.

Broken link. If you’re referring to the infamous Rick Reilly hatchet job on Bonds, what objective evidence does Reilly provide? We know Reilly’s article contains at least one outrageous lie; his claim that the Giants reacted indifferently to Bonds’s 500th home run (they poured out to congratulate him.) Reilly at least got one thing sort of right; the first person to get to him was the batgirl, the only regular batgirl in the majors, BTW. Bonds went out of his way to hug her first. What a jerk, huh?

If Reilly is dishonest enough to lie about something like that, and stupid enough to think he wouldn’t get caught, what am I to make of the rest of the article? Isn’t it funny that the only guy Reilly found to say anything, even assuming the quotes aren’t out of context, was Jeff Kent, who has an equally bad reputation for being a jerk and a bad clubhouse apple?

And what of this chair he has with a TV? What chair, what TV, where did they come from, who bought them, how big are they, do other players have them? He has his own publicist? So do 200 other players. Give me context. Vladimir Guerrero has his own PlayStation in the clubhouse, and he prefers to play video games rather than interact with his teammates. So what?

Hell, some of these things are so twisted it amazes me anyone would fall for them. Bonds has his own nutritionist who brings him meals. Reilly says this as if it’s a bad thing. Let me get this straight; a professional athlete, rather that sitting on his laurel and eating steak and getting fat, has decided to hire a personal nutritionist so ensure his health and fitness, thereby increasing his performance, and that’s BAD? Shouldn’t other players try to emulate Bonds in this regard? Shouldn’t someone with that kind of money hire a nutritionist, a personal trainer, even a sports psychologist? Isn’t Bonds just going the extra mile?

None of this demonstrates that Bonds doesn’t hustle. None of it demonstrates that he’s lazy, and some demonstrates the opposite. None of it demonstrates he’s a bad clubhouse influence. He MIGHT be - I don’t know, and neither do you. One thing I do know for sure; I don’t trust sportswriters to tell me. They’re absurdly dishonest and careless with the facts, base virtually all their opinions based on how much the players like them, and for the most part they’re the worst journalists in the media.

I know of another player who gets even more special perks than Bonds does, and who, unlike Bonds, won’t travel with his team and doesn’t stay in the same hotel. So where is the hatchet job on Cal Ripken, Jr.? Oh, that’s right - Cal interviews well, so of course he must be fellated by the sportswriters.

13

OK, RickJay. Fair enough. We’ll both have our opinions of the man.

14

I’m still waiting for some evidence (even anecdotal evidence) that Bonds is a jerk. So far, I haven’t seen it, and until I do, I’m going to give the man the benefit of the doubt.

15

For comparison purposes, what professional athletes do you think are jerks, and why?

16

Hmm, well, most of my examples of “jerk-like” behavior come from the world of basketball.

Well, Latrell Sprewell seems kind of a jerk. Choking your coach would be an example of a specific “jerky” incident.

On the other hand, Carlessimo was kind of a jerk himself. Incessantly berating your players or your teammates is “jerky” behavior.

Charles Barkley has had several incidents of jerkiness, including incidents of spitting on fans. But Charles is a good interview, so he gets a pass from sportswriters. Mistreating fans is an emblem of “jerkiness.”

Larry Bird once punched a fan for trying to shake his injured hand. The fan didn’t know, and the punch was an over-the-top reaction. I may give Bird the benefit of the doubt if he was responding to pain, but the whole episode sounded pretty “jerky” to me. Hitting fans is not good.

I love Duke basketball, and I’ve always been a Christian Laettner fan, but objectively, the guy has the stink of “jerk” about him. Stomping an opposing player who is on the floor. Jerky. Berating teammates. Jerky.

Players who are constantly in legal jams make my jerk list too. (See Lewis, Ray.)

So, looking at those examples, the following items would constitute being a jerk in my book:[ol][li]Berating teammates.[]Abusing or being a jerk to fans.[]Abusing coaches.[]Unnecessary roughness with opposing players.[]Taking advantage of position of wealth and star status to “rise above the law.”[/ol][/li]
Sorry, but “not playing nice with sports writers” doesn’t make the list.

17

Thanks, Spoke, for your thoughtful reply. You too, RickJay.

Spoke, Barkley is an unusual case. I remember the media being more or less AGAINST him in Philly’s lean late-80s years. He was, then, kind of the league bunghole.

Eventually, though, things somehow changed for Barkley. He started spouting cutting, but funny, one-liners, the press started eating it up, and then BLAMMO! Barkley became one of the good guys. Like in WWF.

Anyway, I’ve noticed on this thread a general disdain for sportswriters. I do not share this disdain, so maybe that colors my opinions. The media are human beings, too – if someone treats them disrespectfully, they are going to react and carry around a grudge. I realize the media are not all angels – but respect and standards of decency are two-way streets.

18

Some thoughts:

I’m surprised that Bonds isn’t more concerned with his off-field “performance.” I agree that he must train very hard and pay attention to details (like the special meals) to be playing at his level at 37. Why he ignores the “detail” of cultivating a good relationship with the media, I don’t know. The sportswriters come with the game. They’ve always been there, and they always will.

Maybe he thinks that the numbers are all that matters–and in a sense they are all that matter. But beyond the narrow realm of the nine innings is real life, and in real life there are no numbers.

He just doesn’t seem like a very nice guy. Nice people are more generous and considerate and warm. Maybe we have no hard evidence that he is a horrible person, but we also don’t seem to have any evidence that he is a good person either.

My hunch is that the Jeters and the Piazzas of the game are just having more fun in life than Barry Bonds. And they will probably have more enjoyable (and lucrative) post-retirement years. Who would you rather have endorse your product, Jeter or Bonds? Who would you rather hire as a coach? Who would you rather be friends with?

Baseball is like life. What comes around goes around. And Bonds may hit 71, but that won’t make him a happy person.

I think Bonds deserves criticism. Or at least deserves a lack of adulation.

I just read spoke’s reply in Preview. I agree that that is some real jerky behaviour, but basketball and baseball are two different worlds. What examples of jerkiness can we think of from baseball?

–Clemens’ bat throwing incident springs immediately to mind.

–Turk Wendell’s water cooler battering also springs to mind. ( I forget where I heard it–maybe here on the SDMB, but somebody suggested he should add a paper cup to that necklace of his. Hee hee!) I’m glad he got traded.

19

Well, David Justice made my jerk list by repeatedly berating Atlanta fans in the press when he played here. News flash: berating fans in the papers is not the way to get them to cheer for you. Jerky.

Badmouthing teammates in the press (a la John Rocker) is also jerky. Heck, Rocker took jerkiness to the level of performance art.

Not showing up for scheduled charitable events is also jerky. Can’t think of specific examples here, but I know there are many.

Still, no one has pointed to any act of Barry Bonds that would put him on my “jerk” list. Maybe he is a jerk, but I still don’t see the evidence.

20

bordelond wrote:

I have nothing against sportswriters myself. I do know that they can be a vengeful bunch if they are snubbed or mistreated. It’s not unique to sportswriters, though. It’s just human nature. Political writers can be the same way, for example.

Bonds clearly made a tactical error in feuding with the press in the first place. I forget which politician once said: “Never get into a fight with someone who owns a printing press.”

I think Bonds is learning the wisdom of that adage.