Eve says it wonderfully. Believe me, your kid will know. Your kid will pick up on the vibes even if you don’t show it. I was the most oblivious kid in the world - my mom could buy my Christmas presents right in front of me - and even I noticed when they fought.
I agree with Anaamika, Eve, and all.
Being in a household with the fights between my mother and father was ten thousand times worse than the (completely amicable) divorce that followed.
To be fair, I was seventeen at the time they split; your son may have a different outlook. But on the whole I do think it’s unhealthy to stay in a toxic relationship, both for yourself and your son. Seek a divorce.
Strongly agree with this. Everyone I know with divorced parents has told me the same thing: the divorce process itself was far more traumatic than the problems that led up to it. So, except in cases of abuse, I believe it’s better to stay together for the kids. YMMV.
Theres been alot of considerate advice here, and I apprecitate it. The overwhelming majority seems to favor divorce. The fact that I’m in a situation where I have to actually contemplate divorce really pisses me off. I’m an idealistic mofo. I always thought (in the back of my mind) that I’d have a nice little family to grow old with. Maybe Sunrazor is the same way. I really dont think that I could be happy being a divorced parent. It just conjures up too many bullsheet memories of fatherhood-by-numbers that my own dad pulled on me. The idea of Family if very important to me. I really wish I could look at this differently, maybe it would be best for my son to spend one week with me/one week with his mom–but I just cant see how that is a substitute for having a father and mother there under the same roof, at all times.
You’ve made some good arguments for divorce though. If the kid feels the hatred in the household, and if its always tense and theres always fighting going on, then that has to be pretty damaging. It seems to me like the kid is kinda screwed either way.
Also–from m perspective–I could be content living in a loveless relationship (perhaps having a lover on the side) for the next 16 years or so until the kid starts becoming independent. What I worry about is that if we get a divorce, there might be peace at my house, but over the last few years I’ve come to view his mother as a bit of a unhappy person in general. So he may be happy at my house, but miserable with his mother. So what good is divorcing to relieve the tense living environment, when that intense living environment is still going to be there for the kid at his moms. At least if we were living together I could comfort/explain things to the kid as to why his mother is the way she is…
For all you know, she thinks you’re an unhappy person in general, based on how you act in the same unhappy marriage.
I think if you and your wife both agree and are generally committed to working things out (a la SUNRAZOR), then you should definitely try to save your marriage.
But if your marriage is unsalvageable, and you make each other angry and unhappy, then I think you should get divorced. I think it’s very hard for an unhappy person to raise a happy child, and it is probably better to have two happy parents in two houses than two unhappy parents in one house.
One of my closest friends from childhood had parents who treated each other with icy contempt (when they talked at all) as they stayed together “for the kids”; she used to pray they would get divorced. She feels that instead of seeing a marriage that failed but the parties mourned it and moved on, she had to see a marriage failing every day, year after year. And she says she will never get married because of it. You might be content to be in a loveless relationship, but do you want your child to think that’s worth settling for?
PaulEdwardWagemann, have you talked to your wife about this yet? I’m getting the sense that you haven’t, and I think that talking with her needs to be step one. It doesn’t even do much good, as I see it, to figure out whether you want to get divorced or not without finding out how she feels. You clearly want to save your marriage; if she feels the same way, you should follow Sunrazor’s advice and find a marriage counselor who can help you work things out. If you’re both unsure whether to get divorced or stay together, a good counselor should be able to help you figure out why your marriage isn’t working, and whether it’s salvagable.
What about one happy parent and one miserable parent living in one house as opposed to one happy and one miserable living in two houses? My approach right now is to just not let the things my wife says/does affect me whatsoever. I’m going to be happy no matter what, and if she wants to be miserable, then thats her choice. I dont know how well this will work out, but that’s how I’m playing it at the moment…
We’ve talked somewhat about it, but our communication is really terrible. Whenever we try to have a ‘relationship’ talk it turns into a huge fight, with each other pushing each others buttons, each trying to prove the other wrong and prove themselves right, and then it spirals into the shitter evern further from there…
I’m not going to get any further into your stuff, PAUL, but if you can be truly happy under those circumstances you’re a much more well-adjusted person than most people I know, including myself. I wish you the best.
Dude, your kid looks exactly like my nephew. Weird.
Sorry, I have no advice whatsoever.
I have seen two instances in which parents of young children have made the decision to stay together for the kids’ sake even though the relationship wasn’t working. In both of these cases, the arrangement went well because both of the parties were reasonable people who were mature enough not to needle one another or fight in front of the kids. They both lived their seperate lives, but were very discreet about it and were pleasant to one another in front of the children.
Seriously, if you want to work on your marriage consider counselling. A third party acting as mediator can stop these discussions devolving and keep them productive. Have you actually sat down with your wife and discussed the options? Difficult though it may seem, discuss the fact you don’t think the marriage is going well and whether you both want to work on it or whether to call it quits. If you both want to work on it, get a counsellor. Just be prepared to hear it is partially both your faults and you both need to change - trying to blame the other person entirely won’t work.
In the cases of amicable divorce I know the children have faired better than the ones whose parents stayed married for the children. Growing up in a house where you have to walk on eggshells to avoid starting a row between your parents isn’t healthy.
With that code phrase, I’d say divorce. The problem is that your situation is so embittered already (and won’t get better) that, even though it would probably be best for all 3 if you got the kid’s custody, any suggestion on your part will get the Sidewinders fired in your direction…
What about a trial separation? Sure, it will cost more, but so would a divorce. Give yourselves time apart so you can independently evaluate your needs and the reality of the situation. You won’t have the daily bickering to contend with.
Another thought is to mutually agree to X period of time without complaining about the other one. No matter what she does, don’t get confrontational or argumentative. No matter what. The reason I say this is that sometimes you get into an unconscious habit of sniping at each other. You need to break the cycle. The way to do that is to follow your mother’s advice: “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” Simply refuse to engage in that behavior. It can help you get back to treating each other with respect. But you both need to agree to it or it really won’t help.
Nobody here can or should answer your question, Paul. Even though you’ve described to some extent your situation, we don’t know all of the nuances and body languages that you two display towards each other. Rather than answer your question, may I recommend that whether you stay married for the sake of the kids, or divorce, you still need to work on changing things about yourself (not her…you can’t change her). If you two can’t stand each other, then it’s obvious that both of you have attributes that negatively affect the relationship…identify the things you do that pisses her off (that you know that would piss you off if she did them to you) and modify that negative behavior and turn it into a positive behavior. Work on improving yourself and your behaviors…she will either start noticing and changing her behaviors as well, or not…but at least your kids will notice your changes (for the better) and that’s a good thing. As for her, if she doesn’t make changes which in turn help your marriage, and you still divorce, then someone else (down the road) will notice your positive attitude as a human being, and you will attract the right person next time…you are a winner either way.
My relationship with my wife has strengthened over the last few months by reading and following these books…
Keep Your Marriage e-book
The Five Love Languages
Co-Dependent No More
My suggestion is to take the time and effort to read and follow the advice in here to see if the marriage is…
- Worth Saving
- Is what YOU really want to do
- In the best interest for all concerned…including kids.
- Actually attainable
But, also the books help you become a better person emotionally, physically and spiritually regardless of the outcome. Good Luck.
I think you owe it to yourself and your kid to try counseling. Your wife may not realize she’s pushing your buttons.
One of my daughter’s best friends parents got divorced. It was for good reason, the parents were reasonably amicable, but it really devastated her - devasted her into eating disorders. Assuming your kid loves both of you, it could be really hard. It may turn out your relationship is unfixable, but you should give it a shot.
Having gone through this situation and also having a child together with her, I must say that I am happy we ended it when we did. We hated each other and I was miserable with a capital M. I just didn’t realize it at the time. My son is fine now.
Just wanted to throw in one last thought: The worst thing you could do right now is nothing. Please don’t think that those of us who urge you to make an attempt at saving the marriage have any certainty it will work. But you owe it to yourself and your child to at least make a good faith attempt, and here’s why. Sixteen years from now, your son may ask you why you didn’t love him enough to stay with his mom. Kids do that stuff – it’s all about them. You at least need to say to him, “Son, I tried really, really hard, but it just didn’t work out.” Believe me, if you make a good-faith attempt, he’ll respect you for it later, and that could be important.
I heard of a shared parenting arrangement where the kid stayed put in the house and the parents cycled in and out every week from their other homes.
My two cents…
Your son is three. You have about a year - maybe two - to divorce and have him adjust quickly in a three year old fashion - thats the one where yeah, its difficult for him, but pretty soon he doesn’t really remember when Mom and Dad lived together. He’s pretty self absorbed and immediate right now - when my kids were three I could leave for a week on a business trip, come back and say three weeks later “remember when Mommy was gone a few weeks ago” and get “no.”
Once he gets a little older, you’ll be staying together UNTIL HE IS OLD ENOUGH - which may be eighteen - or may - if he has issues - be 23 - to handle his parents divorce like a grown up.
Its hard for a toddler to go through his parents divorce. Imagine doing it at thirteen with teenage angst and hormones. Imagine doing it at seven, with the peer pressure of school and friends and the irrational notion that its all about you and the ability to see ahead.
It sucks to share a kid with someone you can’t stand. You may find it easier to do so when you don’t deal with each other daily. BUT one important factor is how your wife feels - if she feels betrayed by divorce, she may spend the next fifteen years making the kid a pawn.
My parents divorced when I was two, and it never bothered me. As far I was concerned, one parent was often more than enough. But now my wife and I have a two-year old ourselves and it would break my heart to leave him.
So I can really appreciate what a difficult descision this is for you, but here you have an example where it didn’t turn out that badly for the kid.