I think there’s a difference between “showing better form” and “how you look”. I have no problem at all in saying that sports with an subjective assessment of style are different from those that are more objective - who scored the most points or crossed the finish line first and so on. But the definitions of bodybuilding I have found define it as being judged on aesthetics alone. Sure, they are going to do strength training to develop their muscles - but when it comes to the competition itself , they aren’t being judged on their strength.( that’s weightlifting or powerlifting or a strongman competition) They are being judged based strictly on how they look - most of the sources I’ve seen say they are judged on some combination of muscle mass, definition , symmetry and balance. One article included this
What’s more, athletes must ensure that the muscles are large but in the right proportions. A small upper chest and large lower chest may look unappealing, as do big quads paired with underdeveloped calves.
There is apparently a bikini division for women in which one of the criteria on which they are judged is overall appearance which includes hair, skin tone and complexion. Gymnasts and figure skaters are judged in part on form - but “form” doesn’t mean a gymnast loses points because their quads are out of proportion with their calves or for their complexion.
Those two skaters are being judged on executed elements. If one has as better form, it’s because they executed the manuever better than the other competitor. I could look rad as hell while I do my lutz, but if my form isn’t as good as my competitor I will get dinged for it. For body building, they’re not being judged on how well they executed a particular pose, they’re being judged on how their body looks. If you honestly think it’s the same, well, I don’t know what else to say other than I guess we’re just going to have to live with our disagreement.
I saw a youtube ages ago where hockey players were showing figure skaters how to do hockey moves, and the figure skaters were showing the hockey players how to do figure skating moves. On stamina alone, the hockey players were flabbergasted at how fit the figure skaters were. But the figure skaters did much better at doing the hockey moves than the hockey players did at the figure skating movies. Also, figure skaters do a lot of weight training. Upper body strength is critical for doing the more difficult moves and jumps. There’s no question figure skaters are athletes.
I guess where I have issue is that there are multiple judging criteria that basically boil down to “how good did they look while they did it”.
Performance, interpretation, and composition all strike me as extremely “beauty contest” type scoring.
I’d count it as a sport, rather than an athletic exhibition, IF some dumpy fat guy could go out there and win the thing by doing his routine technically perfect, but ungracefully. He’d have won independent of how he looks, how graceful he is, how clunky his interpretations are, etc… because he did the objective stuff the best.
But that’s not how it works; it’s hard for ungraceful figure skaters, ugly ones, or fat ones to win. There’s a reason women’s figure skaters are nearly universally pretty.
I’m not saying figure skating isn’t tough and athletic. It absolutely is. But it’s not a sport as I tend to think of them- it’s not evident from the competition itself who’s the winner(highest jump/farthest throw/shortest time/person who crosses the finish line first, etc…), and I tend to think that’s an important criteria. If there’s not a clear winner from the actual competition itself (without external judging), it’s not a sport, it’s something else. Doesn’t mean it’s not athletic, just not a sport.
OK - looks like I’m not going to convince any of you that bodybuilding is a sport. Which is fine w/ me. How about another approach? What activities include as much athletic effort as bodybuilding, that you do not consider a sport. Or sorta the other way around - what “sport” requires the LEAST physical exertion?
Another take, is an activity only a sport during the period of competition? Is the time spent in the gym “sport”, whether or not the person ever competes? If I rock climb/run/bike/swim, am I engaged in sport? Or is that just exercise?
From my perspective, it sounds like your arguing that it’s hard for an unathletic person to win at an athletic endeavor proving that it’s not really a sport. Which sounds very odd to my ears.
Considering that most athletes are young, physically fit individuals in the prime of their lives, they are often what most of us see as attractive. Check out the women competing in track & field events at the Olympics and you’ll see almost all of them are attractive.
Okay, but this thread is about bodybuilding in particular. Are we in agreement that it’s not a sport?
That’s exactly my point. There’s no sport aspect of bodybuilding- it’s effectively a beauty contest. A fat guy can’t win because he doesn’t’ look right, regardless of how well he may pose, how big his muscles are, etc…
Are you defining sport as any physical activity? Because without competition, it’s not a sport. I played a lot of sports growing up, and time spent at the gym, running, or doing other exercises wasn’t the sport. It’s what I did to improve my performance when playing the game, but lifting weights wasn’t the sport.
Since bodybuilding proper is simply a contest of appearance, I would not categorize it as a sport. Much of the effort involves diet, not exercise.
Figure skating, synchronized swimming, cheer, dance and things like that are still physical contests, no matter the subjectivity of the outcome. So I would call them sports for lack of a better word, but they’re not the same category as baseball or basketball, let alone what I would consider “pure” sports, like foot races or weightlifting. (Of course, at the same time absolutely nothing hinges on whether I consider something a sport or not, it’s just a trivial categorization exercise, like “is a hot dog a sandwich”.)
In my view, bodybuilding is not even on the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that. The way I look at it is, sure, any bodybuilder winning contests put in a lot of work and physical effort to get to that point. But theoretically, someone with excellent genes could just walk on stage and beat everybody with no effort at all. Just stand there and flex appropriately. Weightlifting and powerlifting and strongman are sports. Bodybuilding is a beauty pageant.
Granted, a lot of people call what they do in the gym bodybuilding, but they’re just trying to get a better body. They’re not spraying themselves brown and posing on stage in a g-string for audiences and judges. It’s something of a misnomer. What goes on in the gym is strength training. Strength training is one small component of bodybuilding, just as it is for football. But it isn’t football, and it isn’t bodybuilding.
Whatever happened to Shagnasty? Anyway, he claimed that he had a daughter who was a competitive gymnast at one point, and he said that consciously or not, the girls WERE indeed judged on physical appearance as much as they were for their raw talent.
He also claimed that he participated in huge circle jerks with other boys in the junior high locker room, something that other men on this board, and plenty of women (myself included) seriously doubted.
A lot of female bodybuilders end up getting breast implants because they feel like they’re judged on their femininity. They also wear high heels for some of their competitions.
The definition I use for sport is “an athletic competition.” So I would say yes. Furthermore, body builders tend to be sports people, heavily into exercise, nutrition, and competition. It makes more sense to lump them there than other places.
And I don’t think it is quite like a beauty contest, because what is being judged there is based almost entirely on the contestants “natural” state, or requires surgery. Sure, you can argue that genetics plays a part in how easy body building is for someone, but the same is true of every sport. The best are all genetic freaks. But genetics and full on surgical modification is primarily what is judged in a beauty contest
I had more trouble understanding why golf or race car driving were sports than I do with body building. I had to learn about the actual athletics involved in both. And race car drivers, at least, didn’t seem to act like sports people.