I’d just like to say that Australia is a multicultural society where most people live in harmony and respect people regardless of race, beliefs or culture. The truth is that the majority of people living here do not know their full ancestral heritage. Also, many people are light hearted about their origins, that is not to say that racial vilification is acceptable. Regarding to the unfortunate incident in the football, I believe that the fact the girl in question did not have any racist intent needs to be taken into account. The terms ape, Neanderthal, mongoloid, ranga, dog, cow,rat etc are commonly used in Australia. If the girl has not been exposed to a situation where the term is used as a racial slur then how can she be expected to know the implications. Think of the ongoing Jason Dunstall Chief joke, where it is implied that he is a gorilla on prime time television. Also, if you do a google search for ‘ape definition’ there is no mention of racial insult. If people are not aware that ape has racial connotations and therefore it is not used in language as a racial slur then isn’t that a good thing? Can we reach a point where if no-one is using the term ‘ape’ as a racial slur that it can be deemed as just a regular insult, as the young girl intended. Surely that would be a step in the right direction and everyone can move on. Suggesting that any race is different and therefore can be more insulted by a term like ‘ape’ is in itself discriminatory. As is the seeming acceptance for someone with dark skin to use the terms ‘white fella’ or ‘black fella’ whilst if someone with light skin says ‘black fella’ it is considered racist. This is the kind of discrimination that prevents harmony and actually slows down reconciliation. Also, where do you draw the line? Can a parent refer to a friends child in a playground as a monkey if they have dark skin? The fact that an innocent comment can be taken out of context and transformed from a light hearted quip into a racial slur is a concern. So when engaging in banter is it acceptable for me to call a light skinned friend an ape but not a dark skinned friend? It seems to me that by consciously differentiating between people in this manner I would actually be discriminating. I don’t look at my friends in terms of skin colour or culture, I look at them as friends, pure and simple. I myself have received racial insults and been spat on by people from a different culture. I don’t use the actions of a few as an excuse to hate or generalise across any race or culture. I find it more offensive to be called a stupid fing c then to receive an insult relating to my skin colour. Anyone who has been to a footy match will have heard the barrage of foul language and abuse flying around. Yet this behaviour is tolerated. Surely it is the intent and context of an insult that makes it racist. No doubt people will disagree, but this is just my opinion, I certainly mean no offence to anyone with differing views. Basically I think people are either good or bad and as I say culture, skin colour, religion etc does not determine this.
Yep it’s racist, I even asked my 13 yo son what he thought and his words were “you can’t call an koori an ape, its wrong”. Kids at this age can sometimes say dumb things as we all did bit as a lesson to the greater community it is a good to see.
An yes I was at a game on Saturday called the Dreamtime Game to celebrate indigenous culture in Australia and the contribution many players have made to the greatest game on earth AFL. I heard no racist taunts, the respect shown by nearly 100,000 people to the ceremonies an aboriginal artists was fantastic.
Look there are always going to be people at either end of the bell curve but all in all I don’t find Australia racist today.
So are you saying it would have been less bad if she were an adult?
Actually, kinda yes. Like if someone on the street gives you the finger for no reason, that’s bad, they’re a dick. If that someone is a thirteen year old kid? Yeah, as a matter of fact, that’s worse.
Goodes plays football, not soccer, but I suppose that article could be vaguely relevant…
What an incredibly disingenuous response to my post.
I don’t see anything disingenuous about it. Your argument seems to be that because by one definition of “Ape,” the one for zoological classification, all humans are literally apes, that we should forget about this. That’s exactly parallel to “darkie.”
Sorry, if I hear someone outside the US is a “football player” I tend to assume that means what we call soccer in the US. (I’m not sure I even knew there was such a thing as Australian rules football until now.) Still, I think that Wikipedia article is more than vaguely relevant as I wasn’t so much curious about the behavior of soccer fans in particular as I was in whether terms like “monkey” and “ape” were commonly used as racist insults outside the US. It looks like they are.
After a discussion in work, I completely buy it. I had two of my more junior colleagues both <20 years old, express genuine confusion at ‘Ape’ being a racial slur. Note that I’m saying without a doubt she meant to abuse him, but in her mind I believe what she says in that she didn’t intend it to be a racial slur.
Yip. And you were being soft. We could make a parallel to any term that is okay in certain situations but not in others.
And humans are apes only if you consider chimpanzees to be monkeys.
So, is it okay for someone of Aboriginal heritage to call someone of Caucasian heritage an ape without it being considered racist? The idea that one way is racist whilst the other is not stinks of discrimination. Why can’t people be treated equally? Isn’t that the whole point? It really upsets me that there has to be differentiation. People are people, across all cultures and races there are good people and unfortunately there are bad people. I am really sorry that Adam was upset by the remark, but he has moved on and reconciled with the young girl involved. If the words of one 13 year old could drive a division between cultures what hope would there be for the future?
This is a joke. When I saw the footage I was expecting that the child must have said some very racist comments. When I heard what she had said I think it actually says more about Goodes view of himself both, through his own eyes and how he thinks he is viewed by others.
If I was sporting a huge black beard and having a cracker of a game, I as a white man, would expect people to yell “ape” out to me. Aus is loosing the plot and media is to scared to get it straight.
I think you may be right, Australia is loosing the plot and not just with this issue. I have had far worse racial slurs aimed at me and been spat on by someone from a different race. The idea that calling people from specific cultures ‘ape’ is racist is just plain weird. What is the reasoning again? I read that apparently there is a suggestion of similarity in facial structure. Ridiculous! Every human being, me included, has similarities to apes. A trait that we can thank evolution for. Suggesting that one race looks more like an ape than another is both strange and nonsensical. I would suggest, as is the case with many animals, that some people across all races have superficial resemblances. Also, how many times have we heard sayings like “don’t look at me with those puppy dog eyes?” Is that racist to a specific culture too? In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, suggesting the term ape or any other animal based insult is racist to one culture and not another is in itself discriminatory and therefore racist. I say it again, why can’t people simply be treated equally?
Sure you have. Let me guess, you were called a white cunt.
Personally, I (also an Antipodean) wouldn’t have immediately connected “Ape” with “racist comment” - but I can see how people would and it’s certainly not something I’d consider a sensible epithet to be casually tossing out.
However, as someone who spends entirely too much time at football matches*, I would be extraordinarily surprised if “ape” was the worst thing people were shouting at players (regardless of actual or perceived ethnicity).
*For work, not by choice
FWIW, the reasons given why “Ape” is considered a racist insult to a black person but not a white person is because of the history of white europeans considering / treating blacks as less evolved, somewhat less than human, hence kept as slaves in the USA and Aboriginals only being given the vote in federal elections and included in the census in the late 1960’s.
Calling a black person an “Ape” is supposed to be stating/implying that they are somewhat less evolved, less than human and it strikes back to historic treatment.
Having heard the explanation today, I can get that but I still hadn’t joined those dots before.
Man, it must be lovely to be in Oz, where “Ape” directed at a person of colour isn’t considered a racist comment by most, and you can even think of running around in blackface without a second thought. What an enlightened country it must be, free of any racist thoughts.
Or maybe the tenet holds true - “If you have to ask if it’s racist, it probably is”
You can’t pretend that everyone is the same so long as racism still affects people.
It was only a few decades ago that people were circulating the rumor that Aboriginal tennis player Evonne Goolagong had a tail. Cecil mentioned it in passing here, in 1977 -
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/65/do-humans-ever-have-tails
I can believe the 13-yo doesn’t know about the history but I have a hard time believing that the adults around her don’t. At any rate, I have no problem with her subsequent education on the matter.
So what was the intention was of the child who called the man an ape?
Does the kid contend that she was using the term as an affectionate endearment as would be acceptable between friends of any hue?