When I was a kid it was a standard joke whenever we watched a wildlife doco or go to the zoo - ‘we went to the zoo and saw your relatives’, or ‘Is that you with that gorilla in that photo?’
So I am little confused that racists in Britain use that gesture towards Africans.
I do not think that arresting idiots who make this gesture at football games is the best way to reduce/remove racism from football. I am not sure what to do instead, but I think you cannot arrest these people.
[My background - I am part-Maori New Zealander living in Melbourne. My wife is Cambodian. My children’s friends at school are African, Burmese, Cambodian, Indian, Vietnamese etc.( Contrary to some recent media reports Melbourne is one of the least racist places on earth).]
It’s pretty basic: during the 19th and early 20th Centuries, Africans (and other non-white races) were believed to be “lower” on the evolutionary scale than whites were, and more closely related to apes than Europeans.
When you make a crack about your brother looking or acting like a monkey, you’re just insulting him as an individual. When you do it towards blacks, you’re insulting their entire race.
I have a degree in Anthropology. I do not think the racists do. The racists at the football games are trying to insult one individual. They are not “insulting their entire race”. What the hell does that mean anyway? Can a person really insult an entire race!
If you know nothing about English football, maybe you should learn before making comments concerning it.
I don’t think that Colibri was making a comment about English Football. He was making a comment about racism.
In any case, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to come here, ask people to comment on something and then, when they comply, to tell them that they shouldn’t make comments about it.
Was there an incident recently where a footballer was arrested for a comment that was perceived as racist? I’m not really up on British current events.
Sure, they’re insulting an individual, but they’re doing it by indicating that because of his race he’s closer to a monkey.
Obviously, they can.
So the only people who should comment on this thread are those who have an intimate knowledge of English football? English football fans are entirely insulated from their history and the rest of their culture, and their insults are only to be understood within the context of that sport?:dubious:
Is there a physical gesture – a hand-sign or the like? – or is “gesture” here a figure of speech?
(I have a co-worker who does a really good “siamang walk,” a loose-legged, arms-overhead shamble that looks a little like a monkey swinging through the lianas. I don’t believe he intends it to be racist; it’s more “naturalistic” than editorial. It’s like doing a robot walk or a zombie shuffle.)
In the 19th century, the Irish were sometimes depicted as “missing links”–slightly more “human” than Blacks–but far beneath that Pinnacle of Evolution, the Anglo-Saxon. These examples are from the American press–but I believe Punch printed similar stuff…
Degree in Anthropology? The OP needs to study some History, too…
There’s no need to go into the past, comparing black people to apes or monkeys is still popular with racists. Like that picture popular with rightwingers that portrayed Michelle Obama as a monkey-woman.
It seems to me that comparing anyone you dislike or want to make fun of with a monkey/ape isn’t unusual. I can remember seeing left wingers making comparisons to Bush being a chimp.
Not really hard to make anyone seem similar to a monkey/ape considering that we are all closely related to them.
They’re insulting the individual by impugning the race. “If A is B, and all B are X, then A is X”.
Yes. A person can insult individuals, states, and any strata in between.
“I know enough you won’t illegally search my shit.” Wait. What were we talking about?
I know enough about English football to know that the insults were predicated upon the individual’s race and not the individual. Insulting the individual would be “hey, you one-eyed fuck” or “you flop worse than a landed cod!”
Making monkey motions is attacking the race of the individual, not the individual.
Comparing any individual Caucasian to an ape or monkey is significantly different than equating anyone of another race to the same.
There’s a lot of racial reification that plays into this, but at the base is the ridiculous hierarchies created in the early ages of “racial study”. Portraying Bush as a chimp signifies that Bush is none too bright, excluding his race (nevermind the intelligence of chimpanzees). Portraying an African man as a chimp signifies that Africans are none too bright (and the individual, by extension).
One portrayal is inclusive of the individual, the other exclusive. It’s really that simple.
Comparing a black person to a monkey has sinister historical connotations. Sure, you can compare white people to monkeys, too. But…when you compare a black person to a monkey…even if you don’t intend it to be racist, it has to at least occur to you that it could be construed that way. As Colibri pointed out, there is a long history in many Western countries of comparing black people to monkeys using pseudoscience, propaganda, (gestures??) etc., in order to belittle, ridicule, and/or justify the oppression of said black people.
I will spell it out then. Why when someone makes monkey gesture at Bush, it is an insult to him, but if someone makes monkey gesture at Sebastien Bassong, it is racist?
I am not saying that the idiot involved making monkey gesture at Sebastien Bassong is not a racist jerk. I am as sure as sure that he is.
