As above. A Question for Christmas Day.
No, of course not. Think of all the myths which condition the way, say, Americans look at the US, or at American society. (Or substitute any other Western nationality here.)
Why should one think that it is? And what do you mean by “last bastion,” in this context?
Gotta expound more on your meaning. Evidently, western civilization is soaked in Judaeo-Christian mythology – the cultural referentials from biblical setups/parables such as Garden of Eden, Forbidden Fruit, Noah’s Ark, Tower of Babel, Parting of the Sea, Flaming Bush, The Walls Come A-Tumbling Down, Samson/Delilah, David/Goliath, a “Salomonic Decision”, Shepherds at night and Wise Men following stars, Walking on Water, Chasing the Merchants From the Temple, Prodigal Sons, “I wash my hands of you”, seeing The Light on the Road to Damascus, Four Horsemen… you need not be a practicing Jew or Christian to at least have a notion of what is being referred to and what is the message.
Back a century or more ago, the educated would also have a set of referentials from Classical mythology – Oedipus and the Sphynx, “Herculean Labors”, the Argonauts and the Golden Fleece, Medea and her children, Trojan Horses, the Aegis of Zeus, etc. These have now been turned into the subject of some really bad TV shows and movies.
However, don’t discount another source of powerful myths: Literary-Historic Mythology which includes fiction AND idealized history. Don Quijote tilting at windmills, Hamlet agonizing in indecision, Dantes exacting vengeance; Columbus and restive crew; Montezuma and Atahualpa vs. Cortez and Pizarro; George Washington never telling a lie and Abe Lincoln building log cabins; Custer’s last Stand; feisty immigrants and pioneers; an Unsinkable Ship; “a day that will live in Infamy”; Big Brother Watching in 1984; “aliens hidden in Roswell”; these are ALSO used by our civilization as illustrations of universal truths in story form, regardless of their truthfulness, even among those who have not bothered to actually read the whole stories/biographies/true accounts. Millions of people think they “know” what you mean when you say “Frankenstein”(playing God), “Sherlock Holmes”(superior deductive powers) or “Napoleon”(tactical brilliance as compensation for short stature), whether or not it is accurate.
All this, of course, based on that we’re NOT making the mistake of confusing mythology with religion – religions do contain mythologies, but mythologies can be purely cultural and exist outside of organized religions.
Better watch it, JR. You just dropped Tolkien. Someone fanboy will be along shortly to rip you a new one.
Seriously, though, I agree. A well-educated person in the Western world should understand at the very least, IMHO of course, references to the Bible (other religious works if interested), the classics, and just about everything else you mentioned. I’m going to cut slack on the truly national ones, such as George Washington or Oliver Cromwell or who-have-you, but you’re right.
W.W.S.D?
(What Would Superman Do?)
Most people who write about the history of comic books refer to them as the “modern mythology”.
And many archtypes from mythology exist. i.e. Superman=Sampson=Hercules=Gilgamesh.
Mythology Lives! And it’s printed in 4 colors.
Where did you get the idea that Christianity is Western?
Jesus was Asian, and never set foot in Europe. If anything, Christianity is an EASTERN mythology.
Where did you get the idea that Christianity is a myth?
Christianity incorporates so many myths from so many nonChristian sources that I’d hardly call it a “bastion”, or at least not a bastion in the dictionary sense of a defensible fortress. This is even more apparant at Christmas, which in Western countries has become so mixed up with pine trees, mistletoe and candy canes that it bears only slight resemblance to the holiday as practiced a few centuries ago.
Mythology isn’t a “bastion”; it’s an ever-evolving set of beliefs and rituals.
Tell it to David.
I don’t see the connection between his point and mine. I’m not arguing that Christian mythology (and Christmas in particular) has become secularized, I’m saying that Christian mythology isn’t some monolithic core set of unique beliefs. Christianity has gradually absorbed myths from other (often older) cultures while dropping some of its own in a centuries-long process of social evolution, to the point where a Christian in 2002 practices in a manner that would seem bizarre to a Christian in 1002, or even 1502. Describing such a body of gradually morphing knowlege as a “bastion” is incorrect.
I don’t doubt that Christians in 2502 will have rituals that seem highly unusual to us, but that doesn’t mean Christianity will die out, or that it is currently under attack. It means that it will evolve to meet the needs of its practitioners.
The core set of beliefs for Christianity is unchanged since the first century. Jesus is the Messiah for Gentiles and Jews. There’s no need to conflate a body politic with the Body of Christ.
I’d say that depends on how rigidly you define the word “core”. Jesus being the son of God is a core belief, but all by itself it doesn’t constitute “Christianity,” let alone “Western Mythology”. Christianity as a whole is an entire set of beliefs (some more important than others), rituals and observances.
Many modern American Christians probably believe that giving gifts at Christmas counts as a “core” belief, or at least one that is extremely important to them. This ritual is of fairly recent origin, certainly within the last 400 years. In fact, many (if not most) of the rituals now firmly associated with Western observations of Christmas are add-ons, while some of the original Christian messages concerning extreme pacifism (see Matt 5:39 and Luke 6:29) have fallen by the wayside. Western society depends more on justice and self-defense than meek pacifism, so pacifism did not become the norm in the West.
Now that you’ve defined “Christianity”, what am I?
A libertarian? I don’t have enough information about you to try to categorize your religious beliefs, if any.
As far as I’m concerned, you’re free to define yourself any way you want. Even two random people who each define themselves as good Christians probably have some pretty significant differences of opinion, hence all the various denominations.
It was the OP’s use of the word “bastion” that got me started on this, since the word suggests that Christianity is some well-defined area that you are either IN or OUT and it must be defended. Christianity is not well-defined; it’s a loose assembly of people who have a small set of core beliefs in common, but who have a huge range of rituals and observances, all changing over time.
I never thought I’d see you implying that Christianity was false.
Interesting.
Don’t forget about the pay-for-play mythology of Scientology… (uh-oh, here come the lawyers…)
**
More a set of myths than a single myth. My understanding of the discussion was not that a myth necessarily refers to something that is “false,” but then that was not made clear. IMO Christianity cannot be the “last bastion” of Western mythology because we invent new mythologies all of the time.
I’ll say. Let’s talk about UFOs, grey aliens, vibrating crystals, codependency/recovery as a panacea, the Celestine Prophecy, and Deepak Chopra* for a start.