[quote=“NotfooledbyW, post:539, topic:679071”]
It was an attempt to get you to consider why you have a poor debating style and do some self reflection. Apparently, in your mind, not even Mr. Spock can assail your logic.
Are you living in Egypt? Apparently they aren’t going the way you would prefer.
They are going the way they prefer.
And you would not mind the coddling of terrorists so you could have your purified Islamic democracy to hold so dear? How do you know it is going to be a secular military dictatorship for any real length of time? How do you know your democratic Islamist state does not transform into a backwards Islamist theocracy?
[quote=“dasmoocher, post:541, topic:679071”]
A poor debating style should be determined by a lack of facts and logic. You would be better served trying to do that. Spock is fiction. I am not impressed.
No I was telling another poster that is what you did. And since you have not not successfully countered my argument which does not rely on a comparison between Nixon and a coup d’état, I consider your attempt to have failed.
The last time you favorably quoted an Egyptian as saying “this is not a coup”, you threw a fit when I called you on it. And yet here you are again. You are trying to shame Human Action for disagreeing with someone making a statement that you, yourself, disavowed in the last 24 hours.
Your posts are hilarious.
[quote=“NotfooledbyW, post:543, topic:679071”]
Trying to debate by lack of facts and logic?
Another illustration of your lack of clarity about what point you’re trying to get across. You also probably would have been better served by using the word “would” instead of “should”. You’re illustrating that poor debating style quite well.
“They”, huh? Are you under the impression that Morsi had 100% of the population against him, or what? As has already been pointed out, Egyptians don’t have a hive mind.
No, I don’t wish to impose dictatorships on other nations because it’s convenient to me as an American. Democracy is a human right.
Past experience, both Egyptian and with other nations. The lack of any plan I’m aware of to kill all the Islamists.
So what if it does? That’s still preferable to minority rule. And how about this: when the President illegally cancels the scheduled elections called for in the 2012 constitution, then the military is justified in taking action against him. The military still has the real power, being, y’know, the guys with the guns and tanks.
That’s a piddling point if it gets any value at all. I understand why she speaks in revolutionary terms. Because people like you wont’ accept that the revolution is still on. You think dictatorship ended and 'boom democracy burst right on to the scene because they had an election. And it is a revolution for god’s sakes… Revolutions are not always driven by intellectual honesty - they are driven by passion, anger and aspiration. It’s a gut thing. Perhaps she’s speaking from the gut and you can’t handle that level of communication.
I think it was technically a coup, however a coup in the midst of revolution and even immediate aftermath of regime change, where the same continuous military hierarchy had never really ceded power to the civilian elected government makes the label ‘coup’ quite redundant. It is not worth arguing in the bigger scheme of things.
No I was telling another poster that is what you did.–Then you are arguing that’s the comparison I made.
But that’s not what I did. I used the fact that you consider an election invalid when the elected person is forced out and doesn’t finish their term to illustrate your nonsense that an election can be both valid and not valid. This is true in both Nixon’s and Morsi’s case. Using your own statements, Ford finished Nixon’s term, not Nixon. Whether the term ended because of resignation or coup d’etat doesn’t affect the validity of the election, which–I now feel I must point out–occurs prior to the term of office. Except in your mind.
Again, using your logic, Obama’s not out of the woods with regards to the validity of his election if the US military overthrows him before his term ends.
[QUOTE=Human Action;17070158
No, I don’t wish to impose dictatorships on other nations because it’s convenient to me as an American. Democracy is a human right…[/QUOTE]
Who is advocating ‘imposing’ a dictatorship on Egypt? You have lost me there. Last Summer’s rebellion and the coup d’état were not instigated by us. I am supportive of it now that its over as a phase toward democracy, but I do not advocate our imposing it on them. The same when they protested and Mubarak was taken down.
The question was do you mind the coddling of terrorists in order to have an Islamist Democracy kept in place?
Well, the elected their first president, so yes, democracy did burst on to the scene. But, just like in Spain and Argentina, a minority that included the military didn’t like the result, and simply seized power. How’d that go for democracy there?
Yeah, no kidding. As a result, they have a pronounced tendency to result in mass slaughter, and a reactionary backlash. Like, say, the return of military rule, the suppression of political parties, imprisonment of journalists…
I know you’re the product of the '60s and all, but revolutions have no inherent value just by being revolutions.
:rolleyes:
:dubious: So, why did you quote this woman saying it wasn’t a coup, then, if that doesn’t matter to you? How bizarre.
Why would it be “redundant” to call it a coup? Was it called something else that means the same thing? If so, what was that?
If it has to be one or the other? I’ll take the democracy, yes. It’s a human right.
What are you talking about? I have not disavowed El Saadawi or what she said. You are confused. You did not ‘call me’ on anything. I never ever ever ever ever ever argued that Morsi’s ouster was NOT A Coup. I argued that it was up to Epytians like El Saadaw to decide what to call it.
My position is that it is up to Egyptians to decide how to handle their revolution. Not me not you not H.Action. El Saadawi is not going down the Islamist theocracy path for H.Action or anyone else. She said more than IT is not a coup’…
So, it wasn’t a coup?
See below
Well, to be clear you have argued that:
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It was not a coup.
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It was a coup.
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It was an uncommon type of coup.
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It was more like a “constitutional act”.
And you say I am confused. 
So, if it’s up to Egyptians to decide, why have you posted over and over again what it is?
Since the context of that was whether Obama would determine it was a coup for purposes of U.S. law, that’s useless.
I’ll stop commenting on it when you do, how’s that?
You sound like Donald Rumsfeld there. Only two options. The world is more complex than you have it in your mind. And then there is the matter of progress taking time and struggle and a will. You still have not explained how ‘good enough democracy’ to satisfy H.Action standards suddenly to happened the first time around after decades of dictatorship. All illiterate Egyptian peasants became sophisticated Jeffersonian democrats practically over night. They could see through the sugar, oil and rice boxes that were handed them with a request to vote for Morsi. The gifts had no impact on these sophisticated voter’s minds.
It is astounding how that happened.
Keep commenting. You are wrong. Time will show. Right now I think a civil war has been averted since the crisis of Morsi’s toppling.
Oh, Ok, I think I get it now. It’s OK to disagree with her on certain things, but not OK to disagree with her on other things. What I’m not so clear on is: what are the criteria by which one is to determine which things are OK to disagree with and which are not?
Could it be: whatever things advances the argument I happen to be making at the time?
I have never argued that it was not a coup. That is false. The rest of your game is the result of your confusion about Item 1.