Well, research suggests that there is no correlation between the type of assault (stranger vs acquaintance) and the psychological impact involved on the person assaulted. See Bonnie L. Katz, The Psychological Impact of Stranger Versus Nonstranger Rape on Victims’ Recovery in Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, pp 251-269 (Andrea Parrot & Laurie Bechhofer eds., 1991).
Other research has shown there is no correlation between the type of assault and the degree of PTSD exhibited. See Catalina M. Arata & Barry R. Burkhart, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Among College Students Victims of Acquaintance Assault in Sexual Coercion in Dating Relationships, pp 88-90 (E. Sandra Byers & Lucia F. O’Sullivan eds., 1996).
While there may (or may not) be less violence involved in an acquantaince assault, other effects are often more magnified - the person assaulted may be more likely to blame themselves at least partly. Moreover, given that such assaults often involve two members of a social circle, acquaintances are more likely to pick sides, depriving the assaulted person of at least part of his/her peer support that is central to emotional recovery.
Under the law as I know it, there has to be intent. Not for statutory rape, but in every jurisdiction I’ve seen, if you honestly and reasonably and genuinely believe you have consent, freely given etc, then it does not meet the legal elements of rape (shorthand here, as in many jurisdictions, rape doesn’t exist as a specific crime, just as a degree of sexual assault).
Take Tennessee, for example…
(2) should cover the situation you are looking for.
I think a lot of the ambiguity comes from men who are engaged in some level of self-reflection.
For a lot of basically-decent men, it’s easy to say “I would never ever ever ever commit rape. I’m never going to go lurk in an alley and violently attack a strange woman and rape her. Never. I’m a better person than that”. Thus, men who DO commit that crime can be safely adjudged to be evil villains.
And most of those men would also agree “and if I’m on a date with a woman (or some other familiar situation), and she specifically and clearly indicates that she does not consent to sex, I should not, and generally would not, have sex with her”, but it’s much much harder to confidently state “I would never do that”… both because it’s easy to imagine a combination of being a bit drunk, being horny, being frustrated, the woman being maybe less than 100% clear, working together to cause the man to not do what he knows is right and would, in more ideal clear-headed circumstances, do; and because of course that’s the kind of rape that men are generally worried about being falsely accused of (including the “she was drunk and the next morning retroactively decided it was a bad idea” accusation). Therefore, I think a lot of men can at least realistically imagine a situation in which they might end up either accused of, or actually guilty of, that form of rape. Therefore they are much less willing to condemn it as Evil Evil Evil because they can picture themselves in that place.
Rape is rape is rape. Is it different to be stabbed or shot by a stranger than to be stabbed or shot by someone you know? Why should rape be subject to that distinction? Nobody talks about “acquaintance stabbing” or “date stabbing” vs. “stranger stabbing.” I don’t see why they try to parse any distinctions for rape. I think it’s rooted in an assumption that the victim is granting some level of consent (or worse, is lying about not having wanted it) just by virtue of being in any kind of intentional proximity to the rapist.
I also see this kind of disturbing view of date rape. That is, date rape isn’t “that bad” because it’s defined by a lot of guys in this thread as rape not necessarily on a date, but as rape that’s inherently ambiguous. Or that any guy can be accused of date rape by a girl who regrets it the next day or who had a single beer and then decided she was “under the influence.” So the thinking seems to be “Sodomized in an alley by a psychopath with a shotgun” versus “A girl who had a few sips of beer, pulled me into my dorm room, got busy with me, asked me to pull out and then when I pulled out, screamed at me for not doing it fast enough and now I’m a sex offender for life.”
Yeah, I just don’t buy the huge numbers of women we’re supposed to believe change their minds during sex, or give ambiguous messages.
Here’s a helpful hint : always interpret ambiguity as a “no,” and you won’t have any problems. It always worked for me. here’s another hint, if you’re physically having to hold her down, you’re raping her.
The disturbing view is that your example, “A girl who had a few sips of beer, pulled me into my dorm room, got busy with me, asked me to pull out and then when I pulled out, screamed at me for not doing it fast enough and now I’m a sex offender for life.” is often considered rape in our society (and legal system).
There is an inherent difference between “I changed my mind mid-coitis and he didn’t stop (or stop fast enough)” rape and “real” rape (real in quotes only because of a lack of vocabulary on my part) that involves the forcible penetration or forcing of sex on an unwilling participant.
In the current vernacular both are “rape”, the difference is only in degrees. But I for one do not see “I changed my mind, said no, he didn’t stop” as being anywhere even close to the stranger (or known person) assaulting me in an alley, or holding me down, or forcing the sex on me in any way.
Before you can say,or ask, “is one rape worse than another” you must first define the “rape” itself. They may be equally heinous or they may be a world apart.
And not to beat a dead horse, but that is why each case should be judged individually, just saying something is “rape” has little meaning anymore. All of the following are rape in some form:
(1) A 16 year old girl has consensual sex with a 21 year old in a state where the age of consent is 18.
(2) A woman has several drinks but is not passed-out drunk and has consensual sex.
(3) A woman is having sex, penetration has already occurred consensually, but she changes her mind, says “no! stop now!” and he does not immediately pull out.
(4) A man throws a woman down, holds a knife to her throat, tells her he will kill her if she struggles and proceeds to penetrate her.
Every one of those falls under “rape”, but certainly no one thinks that they are all equally bad or even equally wrong. And there is no way anyone will convince me (as a woman) that (1) is as traumatic an experience as (4).
I wasn’t trying to give that as an example of a date rape. I’m saying it’s disturbing that you say the word “date rape” and that’s what gets conjured up for a lot of men. That for a lot of people, it’s either getting raped in the bushes or a guy who pulls out a little too slow or a girl who “cries rape” because she suddenly decides she was too drunk last night. I’m saying that date rape isn’t just tiny little misunderstandings that make life harder for men. I’m saying that more often than not it IS being physically held down and forced into sex. Or a guy not having sex with a girl who’s merely tipsy but who’s too drunk to see or walk unaided or just plain passed out. That all these exceptions are just that–exceptions.
Yes, most date rape does not involve any confusion on the part of the rapist (though it may contain self-delusion about what he’s entitled to, or whether she really didn’t want it).
How often. Do you really think this happens regularly? I’ve never heard of such a thing in my circle of acquaintances.
Of course, chosing the statutory rape category makes it a very different argument. All I can say is that as I posted earlier, with cites to real, live research and all, the harm done by different types of rape is different, and that it is not possible to say that the harm caused by a stranger rape is worse than the harm caused by an acquaintance rape. Go read the articles.
I think you missed my point though. Date-rape or any rape is those things both of them all of them. “date-rape” is the girl who changed her mind or was drunk or was deliberately drugged or was thrown down and forcibly raped. They are all “date-rape” under the current vernacular and under the legal system. But they are not all the same degree of rape.
So the question “Is date-rape less wrong…” cannot be answered unless the actual rape itself is defined. “Date-rape” is not specific enough to know the difference that is being asked. So unless the question is “is all rape equally wrong” then there is no way to answer it.
That is not what I am saying at all though. My point is that we, as participants in this discussion cannot say which is worse or which is more traumatic unless we know the details. Saying “Is date rape just as bad…” or “is stranger-rape worse…” doesn’t mean anything at all unless we know what kind of “rape” is being discussed. All “rape” is not equal and some rapes are far far worse than others.
The question in the OP is moot unless the rape itself is defined. That’s all. Each case should be looked at individually.
And each case certainly is looked at individually. “Date rape” isn’t really a legal distinction, though, which is where your perspective becomes unclear to me, MitzeKatze. Based on the use of the phrase “date rape or a different crime,” and based on your list of things that are all considered rape, it seems like you might be a little unclear about how the legal classification actually works.
Legally speaking, it’s either rape or it isn’t, so yes, we do have an accessible definition of rape, which is entirely separate from the identity of the perpetrator - forcible or otherwise non-consensual sex. I don’t see any reason why we can’t ask a question about whether the identity of the perpetrator matters.
As Jimmy points out, legally there is no such thing as date rape. But my OP wasn’t really a legal question–sorry if that wasn’t clear. I just mean that when we think of who’s a “worse” person or likely to be a worse father, can we make a moral distinction between the man who committed a date rape and the man who committed a stranger rape?
I’d also argue that the girl who changed her mind wasn’t in fact raped so throwing her in with date rape just clouds the issue.
I suspect many people automatically assume that a “stranger rape” is worse because it is likely to be more violent. Admittedly that is merely an assumption.
