Polycarp:
Can’t really say. I mean certainly “hate” could mean “like less” in the sense that “kill” could mean “render less alive.” And certainly Hebrew-to-English translations are something of a blunt instrument when it comes to Biblical interpretation. But it can also certainly mean “hate” in the sense of a positive distancing of one’s self from the person or action in question.
Phthalis:
Okay, I have to give two answers to this. One as a debater, and one as an Orthodox Jew. However, the two answers converge in the end.
As an Orthodox Jew, I certainly do believe that G-d’s standard of morality, as defined by the things he’d said that have been recorded in the Bible (specifically, the “Old” Testament) and explained in the Talmud, is the proper response to any given situation. Much of that, however, lies in G-d’s “mysterious ways,” which I know better than to mention here.
However, as an SDMB debater, I’d certainly never come at a debate from that standpoint. I remove my personal opinions of exactly what that standard might be when debating whether or not I think there’s a standard. I base my opinion, instead, on historic observation of how societies have judged the relative values of systems other than their own. Based on that (and not my personal beliefs), it seems to me that almost all societies have a general agreement on what the goals that a moral system tries to achieve should be, and that the differences between them are, in their nature, disagreements over what means do the best job of achieving them. I refer again to my example of the x-y grid oversimplification. It seems to me that all moral systems agree that the 10, 10 point would be better than anything else. But in the absence of their ability to achieve it, they disagree on whether the 9, 10 point is preferable to the 10, 9, and even on whether the 8, 10 point is preferable to the 10, 9 point. As new information has become available to societies, the value of previous (and sometimes, but rarely, even existing) moral systems are re-evaluated as to where on the grid they actually stood.
Where does it all converge? Well, as an Orthodox Jew, one of the tenets of my faith is that the Messiah will eventually come and bring about the existence of a perfect society. And part of the description of that is in Isaiah 11:9, “The Earth will be full of knowledge of G-d as water covers the sea.” In other words (at least in my understanding of it), this Messianic society will not bring about a change in the way people think, but rather, the additional knowledge will enable people to understand what was done wrong previously and what is being done right then.
It’s difficult to evaluate, but certainly not impossible. As I’ve said in earlier posts, despite the wide variety of opinions and backgrounds you find represented here, I don’t think you’ll find a single person willing to say that the Nazi system of morality was superior to the Western European system of morality. Then there are judgements that are less easy to make. But as long as there is a clear idea of which systems are good and which systems are bad we can, to a degree, extrapolate at least some of the factors on which we base this decision.
Oh, and BTW…of course you (and others) can call me Chaim if you prefer. Heck, I imagine “Phthalis” is a bit of a mouthful…
Chaim Mattis Keller