One of the joys of history is getting intimations of utterly crazy historical events that you’ve never even heard of before.
Buh? Civil War veterals who invaded Canada? Do tell!
Daniel
In a nutshell, the Fenians were Irish-Americans who wanted to do their bit to free Ireland from British rule. They conceived the idea of invading the British North American colonies (Canada didn’t exist yet) and holding them to ransom until the Brits freed Ireland. Since many Irish-americans had served in the Union Army, they had a sizeable pool of veterans to draw on.
There were several raids from 1866 to 1871, into New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba. None were very successful. In fact, the first raid, into New Brunswick in 1866, is credited with helping to persuade the New Brunswickers to vote for Confederation, to improve their defence. Thus, the Fenians are one factor that helped to preserve a British presence in North America.
The service medal that was struck for Canadian veterans of the Fenian Raids is the first example of the colours red-white-red being used to represent Canada, a colour pattern now most evident on our flag.
For more info, see the Wikipedia article.
I grew up in Northern Ireland.
It’s not illegal, but if you used it about a Catholic, Nationalist or Republican person it is considered an insulting or derogatory term, and would reveal you to be something of a bigot.
It is not self applied, and is not considered to have any positive connotations.
The “Fenians” were not solely Irish Americans, the IRB was very active in Ireland, and it is the activities of theIrish IRB and *not * the Irish Americans that most Irish and Northern Irish people would be concerned with.
So while it’s not illegal, like the N-word, it’s probably best avoided.
This is what Trainspotting is talking about? IIRC fenian bastards or fenian cunts was used a lot in the book.
What exactly does it mean in this Hibs & Hearts context?
I got it a lot at a mixed religion school I attended here in Northern Ireland. As mentioned above, its meant as a derogatory term for Irish Catholics, especially those interested in unifying Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
I wouldn’t class it exactly the same a the N-word, although there are some who would probably see themselves as carrying on the work of the early Fenians, its not something I’ve ever heard self applied or seen as a badge of pride.
China Guy, Hibernian F.C. is a football team with an Irish heritage, so calling their fans “fenians” is done for the same reasons as calling Celtic fans fenians (see mtk_'s comprehensive post)
George Bernard Shaw was a Fabian. Different kettle of ghoti entirely.
Wow. We learned a little about the Fenian raids in school, probably on the same day we covered the Rebellions of 1837, but I never ever connected the name with Sinn Fein or the Irish political situation. Learn a new thing every day.
Yes.
Generally that may be more accurate (and I would certainly be inclined to accept the opinion of someone actually from Ireland on the matter)
Note that I was only speaking of some people I know and that they wouldn’t be bothered by it.
Cheers,
mtk_
I’m very surprised that White Wolf would use a word with such negative meaning. They did make a major blunder with World Of Darkness Gypsy. But with that book, their hearts were in the right place. The use of Fenian in WOD Sorcerer looks like carelessness and sloppy research.
I can’t recall if the Mogen Ha Chav is in the PDF. This computer is giving me problems with Adobe at the moment, so I can’t check. The Mogen Ha Chav is also described in WOD Sorcerer. It’s a society of Kabalists dedicated to protecting the 36 saints whose goodness preserves the world. The descriptiof of the MHC was clearly written by somebody who had done a lot of research, and had a good understanding of the subject.
I wonder what other entries in White Wolf books were poorly researched, and which I should not say in public.
So, essentially, a fenian is a rebel.
Since many Southern Americans proudly identify with the Confederates and “Johnny Reb”, I also assume many Irish of political bent would proudly assume the title of “Unrepentant Fenian Bastard.”
A friend of mine, a Northern Irish Republican with very strong pro-IRA views came down to visit me when I was living in Dublin. We walked down a street and he started howling with laughter: the street we were in is called Fenian Street. He insisted on having his picture taken beneath the sign, with a huge grin and a thumbs-up.
Basically, he was saying that this word was never ever used in polite society in NI. His paradoxical stance was that he would be proud to be called a Fenian by the right person, but not from a Unionist, in which case it would provoke a fight.
I’ve always wondered… how is it pronounced?
a) FENN-ian
b) Feniun (virtually one syllable)
c) FEEN-ian
d) something else?
FAY-nee-an. Three syllables.
mtk_ is sort of correct about the “illegality” of the word.
The word is derogatory and it’s use during the commission of other crimes, e.g. assault or breach of the peace, can amount to an aggravation of that crime.
The specific legislation is the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 - section 74 to be precise. It was introduced because sectarian violence is a particularly troublesome problem in the West of Scotland.
Here’s the full text of the section -
*s 74 Offences aggravated by religious prejudice
(1) This section applies where it is–
(a) libelled in an indictment; or
(b) specified in a complaint,
and, in either case, proved that an offence has been aggravated by religious prejudice.
(2) For the purposes of this section, an offence is aggravated by religious prejudice if–
(a) at the time of committing the offence or immediately before or after doing so, the offender evinces towards the victim (if any) of the offence malice and ill-will based on the victim’s membership (or presumed membership) of a religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation; or
(b) the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will towards members of a religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation, based on their membership of that group.
(3) Where this section applies, the court must take the aggravation into account in determining the appropriate sentence.
(4) Where the sentence in respect of the offence is different from that which the court would have imposed had the offence not been aggravated by religious prejudice, the court must state the extent of and the reasons for that difference.
(5) For the purposes of this section, evidence from a single source is sufficient to prove that an offence is aggravated by religious prejudice.
(6) In subsection (2)(a)–
“membership” in relation to a group includes association with members of that group; and
“presumed” means presumed by the offender.
(7) In this section, “religious group” means a group of persons defined by reference to their–
(a) religious belief or lack of religious belief;
(b) membership of or adherence to a church or religious organisation;
© support for the culture and traditions of a church or religious organisation; or
(d) participation in activities associated with such a culture or such traditions.*
This legislation apllies only to Scotland. I’m not sure if the rest of the UK has anything similar, although Northern Ireland was certainly looking at introducing something along the same lines.
Said with a Belfast accent, anything can be blurred into one syllable 
There is an ersatz Irish pub in Jackson, Mississippi called Fenian’s. Popular place, too.
Wouldn’t it be weird to got to a country like … I don’t know … Slovakia, and see a bar called “N#####'s”? Totally absent of context.
I’ve always heard it pronounced FEE-nee-an.
Ditto Dominic Mulligan’s version, perhaps elliding into “Fee-nyan”
Hmm. I’m basing my suggested pronounciation on the BBC and a Unionist friend from Belfast - perhaps not unbiassed sources. 
“Sinn Fein” rhymes with “brain”, doesn’t it?