Is Fox News really all that bad?

Great Debates
221

Fox News is popular and successful not because “conservatives” or “Republicans” make it so, or because its viewers blndly believe everything they see. It’s popular because all the other “News” is slanted to the left either subtly or overtly and people know it.

People flock to Fox because they want something that isn’t the usual center left to far left viewpoint. Really.

When NBC or whomever else tells them the economy is fine and jobs are being created and all that stuff that the White House wants to be put out there, people look around them and see that costs for them are up and too many people they know (perhaps even themselves) either don’t have jobs or have "replacement"jobs that are (like 65% of the supposedly post recession jobs) are very much at the low end of the scale, they know or at least feel different. They feel they’re being told a whitewahsed truth, or if you prefer, lies and propaganda.

I don’t mean to criticize the current adminstration or its policies (though I suppose I could if I wanted to), but what I mean to be saying is that ANY administration would want to say things aren’t as bad as they seem and that at least for some areas they’re getting better. But for the too many that aren’t experiencing better times, the belief is naturally that they’re being lied to. And in a sense, they are.

So they go to Fox for some sort of alternative view. And I think they take it with a grain of salt.

What might beat both Fox and the so-called Mainstream Media would be a news channel that was truly impartial and tried to discuss all sides of issues. And which immediately fired reporters who showed signs that they believe they and their personal lives are important to the public.

Alternatively, a conservatively skeptical news channel that wasn’t quite as overtly opinionated as Fox currently is what would be more in keeping with the need for people to try to find something other than info-tainers who merely repeat the “Authorized” message from on high.

And I think there it is: Skepticism. People, especially people who tune into Fox, are skeptical of what they’re bieng told, either by the government or those in the other networks who do little more than repeat what the government tells them.

You have to admit that when a Fox host takes the wind out of the sails of some government hack (or shill) who is tryng to spin some of the usual BS, it is bound to win a momentary smile from those who feel like they’re unempowered.

222

So, how goes the LA Times acquisition, Mr. Murdoch?

223

Not if they are so untrustworthy that even if they seem to be making a good point, you always lingeringly wonder if it isn’t BS deep down inside, because it is BS 90% of the time, so statistically you’re likely to be right.

224

How skeptical were they when Bush was president?

225

This is one of the biggest problems, I think. Many folks today aren’t interested in hearing actual news or in-depth analysis, if it doesn’t match their own personal attitudes or what’s happening in their lives. If the news reports don’t match how they feel, why, then, those left-leaning liberal reporters must be lying! It seems to me there’s much less openness to considering that there might be more going on in the nation and the world outside my own situation and neighborhood - and if stories from outside my “bubble” don’t match up with how I perceive things, they must be propaganda.

I also think the notion that mainstream media is only repeating administration talking points, while not doing any sort of investigation or reporting, is silly. It’s also disingenuous if you’re using that notion to defend Fox News, which has its own talking points to repeat and defend ad nauseum.

If only this were true. In my experience, almost all Fox News viewers swallow what they are told hook, line and sinker, to the specific exclusion of what other news outlets may report.

226

Piffle.

It is only the belief, (not knowledge), of Fox viewers that the the rest of the MSM slants to the Left. There are issues on which the MSM does slant left, principally in the realms of personal rights and social justice. However, there are realms where the MSM slants Right, as well, principally in the areas of business and the military.

Your specific “business” example is silly. The MSM has not been reporting that the economy is “fine.” They generally report what the numbers indicate, talking about both upswings and downswings, as they happen. They, like Fox, fail to provide sufficient background and nuance to their stories so that both tiny shifts are reported as major news, but there is no persistent cheerleading for the economy in the manner that you imply.

It has already been demonstrated that Fox viewers are more likely tho believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in the WTC/Pentagon attacks and that Fox viewers are more likely to believe that crime continues to rise in the U.S. when it has been trending downward for nearly 20 years. Whether they share those beliefs because they are being deliberately misled by Fox or whether they watch Fox because they want to hold those beliefs in direct contradiction to the evidence is irrelevant: Fox is the outlet that supports such falsehoods.

227

No, it’s a fact.

No, it’s accurate. Cite.

OK, then let’s see a cite proving that the non-Fox mainstream media slants right when covering the military. We will then be able to determine what kind and level of proof is necessary to show that the MSM slants left on everything else.

Regards,
Shodan

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So, in a discussion of electronic media, your claim of “fact” rests on a “study” performed by a right-wing pundit over nine years ago who reviewed only print media, where half the publications he found not biased to the left was one by which he was employed.

meh

230

Seriously, Mary Rosh and Mr. “Dow 36,000”? That’s pretty funny, in a sad sort of way.

231

Unlike most commercial enterprises, however, those few people whose wealth it exists to increase, while still few – say, perhaps 1% of the general population – are a much broader group than its own stockholders.

232

Judith Miller started as a reporter for The Progressive.

She’s no more a right-winger than Kenan Makiya.

That doesn’t mean she’s not a terrible reporter.

233

You’re being far too kind to Mr. Lott.

He’s the guy behind the delightful More Guns, Less Crime.

In the book he claimed that he’d had some of his assistants conducted a study proving some absurdly high number of defensive use of guns.

When asked to produce the study, he said it had been lost in a computer crash and he couldn’t remember the names of the assistants who conducted the study.

He’s either hilariously incompetent or, more likely, a liar.

234

I am aware of Mr. Lott’s history of publications, (and of “Ms. Rosh”). Still, I would prefer to note that this specific citation was neither on target nor trustworthy rather than simply engaging in dismissal by name.

235

So you don’t have a cite for anything you claim, and you simply wave away any evidence. Typical.

It would make a pleasant change if you could debate in good faith.

Regards,
Shodan

236

You submitted a “study” by two persons who have had notorious problems in documenting previous studies, both of whom are politically on the far right. I noted that the study failed to address the issue at hand and your response is to make a personal attack on me.

Typical, indeed.

237

Mr. Shodan asked for an example of mainstream media leaning right on military matters, and I provided it. I am not aware of anyone who read Miller’s cheerleading NYT articles about the invasion of Iraq and said, “Hey, wait a minute, she’s a liberal, so I’m going to ignore this article.”

On the contrary, to the extent readers were aware of her liberal origins, it probably raised their opinion of the credibility of her articles. If a liberal reporter says on the front page of the NYT that the WMDs are there, then they must be there.

238

Believing in the existence of WMDs in Iraq is not testament to being right-wing or left-wing.

You’ll notice that plenty of socialists for example believed very strongly in them, such as Kenan Makiya.

For that matter, whatever one would describe Tony Blair as, right-winger is not one of them.

There is a tendency of many Americans to try and pigeonhole everything as being “right-wing” or “left-wing” but the truth is vastly more complex, particularly for anyone familiar with the world outside of America.

I’d say the same to people squealing about how “left-wing” the “mainstream media” is.

239

Kenan Makiya believed in regime change. The WMD matter was a pretext to achieve regime change.

240

Tone it down. There is no need to ratchet up the anger with insults.

[ /Moderating ]