Jumping in a little late here. I’ve always been called selfish for deciding not to have children (mutual decision btw). I have even referred to myself that way in the past - “I’m too selfish to have kids because I like spontaneity, my own time, can’t afford them, etc.”
However, now you mention it, I believe the opposite is true. Perhaps both. My friends are expecting and I’ll raise this issue tonight. I know that the primary reason for them so far is : “I have to do it now before it’s too late.” Doesn’t sound like the best basis for a life changing decision to me. They have this vision of being old and lonely. I, on the other hand will be surprised to get to the old bit…
Having said all that, I find myself feeling somewhat broody :eek:
The reasons for having a child in my mind would be selfish. I would lavish my love on my child and take pride in the marvels of life. After all, that’s our job as has been mentioned above. But. I think that the selfish aspects kinda give way to selfless acts in the rearing of the child, a topic that is outside the bounds of the OP.
IMO, one *should * choose to have a child or not have a child for “selfish” reasons. Wanting kids is the only good reason to have any. Why would you have kids to please anyone else? “Anyone else” isn’t going to raise and support them for you.
I find the selfish vs. selfless argument ridiculous anyway. If I donate to charity, or if I spend the day building houses for the poor, or being a big sister, I do it because I *want * to, and because it makes me feel good to have done it. I suspect most people feel the same. Does the fact that I derive selfish pleasure from it diminish the good that I did? After all, my goal is to help, not to martyr myself or achieve sainthood in the process. (Of course, if martyrdom or sainthood were my goals, that would still be pretty freakin’ selfish, wouldn’t it?)
This is more of what I’m getting at - the word selfish has negative connotations, but I don’t always see it as a bad thing. We do lots of things that are absolutely selfish, but not necessarily in a terribly negative way - I didn’t actually need a new laptop last year, but I really wanted one, so I bought it. Selfish of me, but I’m not really hurting anyone by doing so.
As far as separating the choice to have children with the actual raising of them - I can see where people are coming from with that. I think for most people, having a child naturally falls into the raising of them, so it’s hard to separate the two. I know when we made a conscious decision to have a baby, from that point out, there wasn’t any question as to whether or not we’d do the best we could for him - it’s a natural follow-through. But I do know of people who’ve managed to separate the two, which is where part of the question stems from. I know several women who’ve had children because their husbands wanted them to have them, and they just went along with it. Thank God they’ve all turned out to be amazing mothers who adore their children, but it could have turned out very badly for all of them. I’d say at some point, their decision went from an inherently selfish one to a very non-selfish one because they do make the best choices and provide amazing care for their kids.
I just don’t necessarily see this kind of selfish as a bad thing, but I still consider our (as in myself and my husband) desire and want to have children as somewhat selfish.
Children don’t have to cure cancer or save the world to be an important part of our society. It takes all levels of talent, strength, love, humor, grace, compassion, etc, to make the world go 'round. We all make a contribution.
I was once talking to a friend of mine who was a single mother after a divorce. She was raising a healthy, happy, and well-adjusted daughter, and I complimented her on it. She asked why I didn’t have any kids. I said “Well, I guess I’m just a more selfish person than you are.”
“Oh no,” she said. “Having a kid is the most selfish thing you can do.”
I tend to draw a line between what I call “selfishness” and “self interest”. Selfishness as I use the term means you don’t care about the consequences to others of getting what you want; self interest just means that you are looking out for your own needs and desires.
The question doesn’t make any sense to me. I do any number of selfish things, and maybe a few selfless ones. Having children (and I have two) doesn’t map to either category. Now that they’re around twenty, I can say that my continuing to support them is a selfless act, while my heartfeltdesire to stop doing so is selfish. But as to having them in the first place, it doesn’t track.
I thought the question was worth repeating. This is the classic example of the fallacy of the false dilemma.
“You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists.”
Having kids is like everything else people do, it’s just part of being people.
The decision to have children (that is, for those who actually make a decision) is like every other decision people make. You think about what it’s going to cost (and I don’t mean monetary cost here) and you think about the benefits and you decide to do the things where the benefits outweigh the costs. It’s not selfish to decide to have kids because you love being around children and you’d like to have your own any more than it’s selfish to go out to dinner or buy a new car.
BTST I avoid childless-people bashing. People who choose not to have children are making the same evaluation and coming to a different conclusion. I think some parents see childless people and say, “Selfish!” when they are thinking, “You should have to smell stinky diapers like the rest of us who got some things we didn’t expect.” But I’ll also say that when my kids give me hugs it’s all worth it, and they think so, too.
Childless by choice person checking in. I personally think I am too selfish of a person to have children. Which is unselfish, because kids deserve unselfish parents. How does that work?
In some European countries, like certain regions of France, there’s a bit or pressure on women to have kids. The population is aging, statistically, and the next generation of tax-payers is too small in numbers.
So that would be an argument for " having kids is selfless".
Personally, I feel this kind of pyramid scheming is ridiculous.
Well, the whole idea is that those kids will economically support more elderly people then just their own parents. So the prospective parents can be seen as selfless towards society in the larger sense.
It’s still silly. Following the same line of reasoning, we’d have to have more kids every generation.
I can just picture the conversations that go every day in America: “Honey, when I was at the employee picnic I saw the most adorable little angel.” Then the husband will raise an eyebrow, “Now Barb…” “Aw, c’mon, I want one! I want one!”
I had eggs for breakfast this morning because I wanted to; I could have had other things. Is it selfish to prefer eggs over pancakes?
“Selfish” means to be chiefly concerned with oneself, especially to a fault. It implies not the existence of self-concern, but an excess of self-concern. Merely doing something because you want to cannot be considered “selfish,” since everything we do that isn’t coerced is something we want to do. Following your logic, it is selfish to have children and to not have children. It is selfish to have pets or to not have pets. Everything is selfish, using your use of the term. It renders the word meaningless.
I don’t have children. My husband and I decided not to early on, he because of his family history did not think he would make a good father, I because I honestly believe there are too many people on the planet already. What I see as selfish is letting millions of unwanted or orphaned children around the world simply die of hunger, disease and neglect, and claiming that you love children.
My having a child doesn’t rob another child of anything. My not having a child doesn’t guarantee a better life for anyone. Existence is not a zero sum game.
I’ve never met a parent who didn’t totally get off on the automatic unconditional love God-like status they get just for having a kid.
Parents can complain about the lost sleep, the crying, the diapers, the runny noses, the dentist bills, the school tuition, but I don’t have much sympathy. Parents get to be Gods.
Yeah, I think having kids is essentially selfish. Parents don’t do it for anyone but themselves.
Depends if I have to pay for your kids with my taxes. If I do, then yes, you are a selfish a-hole. Of course, there is the larger question of overpopulation, but not addressing that in OP methinks.
But I’ll also say that when my kids give me hugs it’s all worth it, and they think so, too. 