Is it even FUN being a yankees fan?

Cafe Society
1

Seriously.

Is it fun at all that anytime one aspect of their game starts to lag a little and puts them back on the same plane as the rest of the league, that they just go spend their way out of it?

What’s to pull for? What’s the struggle?

Can you at all understand the enjoyment of getting behind the scrappy guy who gets called up late on the season, plays his heart out in spring training next year, and hopes to make the team? Or the enjoyment of having 7 of those guys making up your starting line-up? Or is that just a suckers game?

Can you admire the strategy and eye for talent of people like the Patriots or Athletics front office working within the confines of limits on their funds (either league, or economically imposed)?

Or is this how you like it? No matter how big the hole, there’s always enough money to plug it up with and fuck 'em all?

Do you root for things like that in other aspects of your life?

For instance, would you like to drive through a neighborhood of old charming homes, and see a guy put up a 7000 sq. ft home that stretched from one end of his lot to the other, and was 4 stories tall? You’d root for that guy?

When you see the runt of the litter starving to death in nature shows, do you keep rooting for the alpha dogs to get more than they need?

2

Ah, spoken like a true embittered Orioles fan! I sort of agree with you, except that spending your way out of trouble only works partially. And if it doesn’t work, then you end up as the laughingstock. I think this is what Yankees fandom is all about – hoping that whatever Steinbrenner does works out, because otherwise, you wind up with embarrassment more profound than a Devil Rays fan will ever know.

3

As a Red Sox fan (by far the #2 salary in baseball) I can’t really complain about the Yankees spending this money. I still don’t think they’ve figured out that you have to nurture upcoming talent, but they needed to do something about their starting pitching this season.

Once you’re in for $195 million, what’s another $18 mil?

4

[QUOTE=Trunk]
Is it even FUN being a yankees fan?
[/QUOTE]

YES!

It is often fun, much of what you write hits home and cuts deep. However, I have always been a Yankee Fan. I was a fan before George bought the team, when the team was bad. I stayed a fan through the bad and crazy times of the Eighties and rejoiced like all hell at their return to the top in 1996 when they were the young and scrappy with few All Stars and a lot of heart. There is no question 1996 was sweeter than the years that followed, but the Dream season of 1998, the perfect games, and the Subway series were very special.

The way the Yanks meant so much to a shaken city in 2001, when non-baseball fans seemed to take heart with a flawed Yankee team rallying to the World Series, the comebacks in the late innings in the World Series and Jeter’s homer just past midnight on November 1. It was very special. Mets fans and even Boston fans for one time only were rooting for the Yanks. It was a unique and special couple of weeks.

The Bronx Zoo years were actually a lot of fun. The team was really gritty and everyone seemed to have a chip on their shoulder except Willie Randolph. Munson and Martin defined gritty in your face style of baseball. They were exciting and characters like Sparky Lyle and Goose added a lot to the team. Of course, there was the first King of Mercenaries in Reggie Jackson, but his October theatrics made up for an awful lot of his baggage.

Yes, Yankee fans expect the Yankees to win. Yes, collectively we are not happy with just playing well. We have all this history handed down to us of what the Yankees were and what the Yankees are and unless we win it all, we are disappointed. So, much of the hits we take, as fans are deserved. Keep in mind though, that these same fans are more often than not, Giants Fans, Knicks Fans and Ranger Fans. The first 12 years I watch football, my team was not just bad, but a sad and pathetic joke. The non-Giant fan, Yankee fans are usually Jet fans and being a Jet fan is even tougher than being a Giant fan. Do we really need to discuss the hardship of being a Rangers or Knicks fan. The Rangers have only won once in my lifetime and are now owned by the worst owner in sports. At least the Knicks were exciting in the Nineties and not having any expectations to win, this was pretty-good. I still love the Knicks-Bulls play-offs of the time, but again, they now owned by the worst owner in sports.

I hope this answers your question,
Jim

5

The Yankees do pay for talent, and they have a history of overpaying for talent that they are trying to correct. The Clemens deal, which is probably the impetus behind this thread, has been in the works since the Yankees signed Andy Pettite. The Yankees rotation has more holes than Clemens can cover, assuming he is still up to the task. The rotation was suspect before the injuries, and now they are throwing out any kid who can throw 60’6" 100 times with middling accuracy. The Yankees put in a bid for Daisuke Matzusaka, but nowhere what was needed to land him. They also didn’t participate in many of the big signings this off-season. They did land Kei Igawa, who has been inconsistent (to put it mildly). That, and they are relying on Carl Pavano to come back, which should tell you something about how bad their pitching prospects are.

That said, I think you underestimate the youth on the Yankees, and those with the team that came up from the ground floor. There were no Yankee fans not cheering for Phil Hughes. Robinson Cano just had a stellar rookie year, which made the contributions of Melky Cabrera seem less outstanding, filling in for a fallen Matsui. Last year, they had Andy Phillips behind the lumbering beast known as Giambi at first base; this year it is Josh Phelps. New Yorkers are looking for someone to back up, learn the ropes from, and eventually replace Jorge Posada. This year, we get to see if Wil Nieves will be that person. And lest non-New Yorkers forget - Jeter, Rivera, and Posada have always been Yankees, as was the now-retired Williams.

So yes, the Yankees were willing to spend on Clemens, and had been negotiating to do so for some time. Yes, when depleted by injuries, the Yankees will turn to a mix of experienced talent (Bobby Abreu) and rookies (Cabrera). That said, if you want a new evil empire to fault, continue along I-95 north a few more states, and compare the spending practices there with those of the Yankees over the past few years.

Lastly, a questions for your consideration - would Clemens have gotten $28 million if the Yankees weren’t desperate? I’m thinking no, but the 5 starters on the DL put RC in a better bargaining position.

6

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
… the first King of Mercenaries in Reggie Jackson…
[/QUOTE]
While Reggie set the modern standard, I’d give the title of ‘first’ to Catfish Hunter.

7

In the past 2 years, Yankees fans have had Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Chien-Ming Wang to pull for as underdogs. I think many fans are pulling for the AAA guys like Phelps and Karstens to make the team. I know that the popular image of the Yankee fan is that they view the rest of the teams as not so much a worthy opponent as a parts catalog. But I think most people like to root for the same guys and not just an All-Star team.

And there is still considerable pride in that the core of the team – well, Jeter, Rivera, and Posada anyway – came up as rookies. A lot of people were miffed at the treatment Bernie Williams got this spring.

I see part of the problem as the frickin’ DH – AL teams generally carry a not-too-useful over-the-hill slugger in one roster spot, and with limited pinch-hitting/double switches there just isn’t the role for bench players that there is in the Senior Circuit. Of course, the other part of the problem is this “We have to win the World Series every year” nonsense. At least their overspending now benefits the small-market teams, so that the Royals can go out and sign Gil Meche for far too much money where otherwise they would have had to sign him for merely too much money.

Anyway, I’m a Mets fans, and I hope Clemens goes 0-12, someone mistakenly throws a piece of bat at him, and that MLB finally figures out what it is that he’s injecting into his ass.

8

[QUOTE=D_Odds]
That said, if you want a new evil empire to fault, continue along I-95 north a few more states, and compare the spending practices there with those of the Yankees over the past few years.
[/QUOTE]

Phew! Thought you were talking about the Sox, but as everyone knows 95 goes outside of Boston. :wink:

Go Red Sox!

9

[QUOTE=D_Odds]
While Reggie set the modern standard, I’d give the title of ‘first’ to Catfish Hunter.
[/QUOTE]

You could say Catfish, but Reggie embodied the concept of the hired gun without loyalty better in my opinion. Catfish’s free agency was done more quietly. He did his job and did not cause the many problems and rifts that Reggie did. Catfish also only had one big Free Agency contract and only played for two teams.

Reggie was trades by the A’s to the O’s then sign the big FA contract with the Yanks, began his 5 year love-hate relation with the Team, Owner, local press and Fans. Signed a big contract with the Angels and jumped one last time back to Oakland. He was the first one to really look like the hired gun.

I did not mean first Free agent, I specifically meant “King of Mercenaries” which is why I put it that way. :wink:

Jim

10

[QUOTE=Ichbin Dubist]
In the past 2 years, Yankees fans have had Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Chien-Ming Wang …
[/QUOTE]
How could I forget Chien-Ming Wang. Let me add, then, to make up for the absence, Scott Proctor. Most Yankee fans were also pulling for Bubba Crosby, who was given chance after chance to make it. And while he had a short Houston vacation, Pettite came up through the Yankees and had his best years wearing pinstripes.

11

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
The way the Yanks meant so much to a shaken city in 2001, when non-baseball fans seemed to take heart with a flawed Yankee team rallying to the World Series…blah blah blah…very special. Mets fans and even Boston fans for one time only were rooting for the Yanks. It was a unique and special couple of weeks.
[/QUOTE]

Don’t delude yourself…Luis Gonzalez will always have a special place in my heart. If NYC were to be struck by a zombie apocalypse, with mutants roaming the streets and millions fleeing in terror – I’d *still * root for the Yankees to lose.

12

Clemens is a funny new kind of mercenary.

I haven’t heard anyone talking about what his actions the last two years might do to baseball.

So, he takes off as much time as he wants. Doesn’t need to deal with spring training, or playing in the cold.

He sits out a couple months to see how the season is shaping up, who might REALLY need a pitcher.

Then, his agent starts making a couple of calls.

Why wouldn’t a Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson decide to sit out next year until May or June?

Most younger people are looking for a long term deal, so obviously this isn’t going to catch on across the league, but I think it’s a funny development.

13

Why would it not be fun? I know somebody said rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for U.S. Steel, but must you imply it has something to do with character rather than, say, being raised by a Yankee fan?

The fan favorites on the Yankees are the home-grown players (see What Exit?'s post) and the scrappy guys, like Paul O’Neill and Tino Martinez of yore. That’s pretty much how it goes for every franchise, I think. Perhaps you’ve missed the endless talk about how, for all his production, Alex Rodriguez will never get that same kind of love?

It can be a weird experience because of the way some people gloat whenever anything goes wrong for the Yankees. That’s a pain in the ass, and you do want the team to do better to shut them up. But from game to game, it’s not any different.

14

For me, it’s fun being a Yankees fan because my dad and grandpa are Yankees fans. Yeah, I know this is kind of a stupid reason, and I’ve never been the kind of person to do something just for the sake of fitting in, but when baseball season comes, the Yankees are something that brings us together, which is never a bad thing. In most of America, being a Yankees fan is much like what I imagine being a Loyalist in colonial America was.

15

Yeah, why can’t the Yankees front office be like the Patriots’ front office? You’d never see the Patriots picking up overpaid malcontents like Randy Moss…

Okay, bad example.

In any case, don’t kid yourself abvout those “scrappy” little guys playing for nothing more than love of the game. If you’re over 10 years old, you’re an idiot to think this way. Every one of the scrappy little underdogs on the Royals or the Devil Rays is hoping to have a breakout year and sell himself to the Yankees for megabucks down the road.

There’s not a single player on your favorite team who wouldn’t abandon you in a heartbeat if he could get another dime somewhere else. The only difference between the Yankees and other teams is that their mercenaries have alredy proven their worth at one time or another.

16

[QUOTE=Trunk]
Seriously.
[/QUOTE]

Sure - for many of the reasons laid out here. Bottom line is that there is plenty of room for disappointment in being a Yankees fan; I am just not sure how late into October I will have to deal with it, if and when it comes - and when it comes, it is usually accompanied by the frenzied, joyish howls of self-righteous non-Yankee fans who love to stomp on them when they crumble.

Seriously - could there ever be anything more humiliating than The Choke in '04? Sure, I can take my humiliation as a fan and cry on the pile of World Series titles the Yanks have won, but if the Yankees weren’t, well, the Yankees, how else would Yankee haters get all the joy out of stuff like The Choke??

And as for Clemens - please; get over it. The Yankees are facing a hugely awful run in pitching injuries while demonstrating they can score runs; this acquisition is a small factor in the overall progression they will go through during the season…

17

[QUOTE=jsc1953]
Don’t delude yourself…Luis Gonzalez will always have a special place in my heart. If NYC were to be struck by a zombie apocalypse, with mutants roaming the streets and millions fleeing in terror – I’d *still * root for the Yankees to lose.
[/QUOTE]

I did not mean to imply all Boston and Mets fans, but yes, a surprising number of Red Sox and Met fans either told me they were rooting for the Yanks that one time or said so in interviews. If you don’t recall this, than I am now confused.

As many Yankee fans in this thread have pointed out already. Most Yankee fans do root for the homegrown players more than the big free agents.

Don’t get me wrong, now that Clemens has put back on the pinstripes, I hope he goes 13-0 and has a great postseason. I hope A-Rod breaks the single season home run record. Hell, better him than the much worse Barry Bonds holding it.

On the other hand, I would be happier, if the Yanks mainly spent their money on keeping homegrown talent and developing more homegrown talent. Something that Cashman seems to be trying very hard to get the Yanks back to.

Jim

18

[QUOTE=WordMan]

Seriously - could there ever be anything more humiliating than The Choke in '04? Sure, I can take my humiliation as a fan and cry on the pile of World Series titles the Yanks have won, but if the Yankees weren’t, well, the Yankees, how else would Yankee haters get all the joy out of stuff like The Choke??

[/QUOTE]

Worse in my mind was the loss of the 2001 series - right after 9/11 - to the Diamondbacks, thereafter known as the Taliban Snakes.

19

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
It was very special. Mets fans and even Boston fans for one time only were rooting for the Yanks. It was a unique and special couple of weeks.

[/QUOTE]

Well, as a Red Sox fan I didn’t care what had happened six weeks before, I wanted the Yankees to lose in 2001 and lose hard. So a bottom of the 9th, game seven collapse with Rivera on the mound was pretty much my wet dream.

20

I’m not a Clemens fan but grudgingly admit he was a tremendous boon for our team. However, when you look at what we’d have had to pay to keep him, to compete with what the Yankees were throwing at him, you gotta roll your eyes and moan “That’s freakin’ insane.” No one’s worth that.

Meh, take him. It actually was worth the laugh, knowing that all the Longhorn fans here are finally reallizing Roger never came home out of any sense of loyalty. That was a chucklefest in and of itself.

Baseballs a business. I don’t blame Steinbrenner for spending what he does, but he or anyone else so enamored with winning in such a gaudy, unfair manner judges these things far differently than most of us. Winning’s great no matter what but you can’t tell me it’s not sweeter to do it through skill on a level playing field than through brute financial force.