The Yankees are good for baseball

In My Humble Opinion
1

Here is my proposition:

Obviously it is bad for baseball in the short term as long as only the top 5 payrolls have ANY chance at a World Series Pennant. The baseball owners, though, are unwilling to do anything about this. The small market teams are now nothing but Farm teams for the Yankees and Braves and Mets and Dodgers.

The Yankees have won 4 of 5 World Series. How many more will they win? The next 10? Maybe then the baseball owners will wake up and do something about this.

This was the most boring Series in a long time, thrown bats aside. Who cares, unless you live in NYC, whether the Mucking Fets or the Damn Yankees win? Nobody. Who cares about the Braves outside of Atlanta? Nobody. Who cares about the battle between the 120 mil team and the 90 mil team? Nobody.

You’ll never see a turnaround like the St. Louis Rams had in baseball as long as there is no TV revenue sharing as in the NFL. Yes, the 17 week NFL season is a different creature than the 162 game baseball season, but I’m sure that some system could be worked out to add some parity in baseball.

And while we’re at it, lets get rid of the DH, okay?

Discuss.

2

This has been discussed alot lately in several threads. I agree, it’s bad for the sport if only a few teams can afford to pay for talent. But before 1996, the Yankees had’t won the Series in 18 years! They’ve always been one of the richest teams, so how do we explain that?

3

Speaking as a die-hard Boston Red Sox fan, I have the perfect explanation for that - The Yankees suck, that’s why!

4

Bad management. They finally got their act together. The fact that some big money teams can’t win is a non-issue.

Take Baltimore, for instance, who can’t do anything despite mucho bucks. The fact that the Orioles still seem to be throwing money down the toilet is, I think, good for baseball. The point isn’t that some rich teams don’t succeed, but that we’re moving into a situation where ONLY rich teams can succeed. When was the last time a World Series team was NOT one of the top 10 money teams (even top 5)?

5

Let’s see…

Baltimore and Los Angeles spend fortune and they are not even .500 clubs.

Oakland spends a small amount and makes it to the playoffs, one game away from a series-deciding series with Seattle.

Any questions?

Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, three weeks, 13 hours, 32 minutes and 15 seconds.
8182 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,022.82.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 9 hours, 50 minutes.

THE YANKEES WIN! THAAAAAAH YANKEES WIN!
1996 · 1998 ··· WORLD CHAMPIONS ··· 1999 · 2000
26 Titles! The #1 Dynasty of all-time!
And most importantly… RULERS OF NYC!!*

6

I’m not sure of where these teams rank in payroll, but the Padres were in the Series in '98, the Marlins in '97, the A’s and Giants in '89, the Twins in '91. The Rangers had a run of playoff appearances a few years back, and the A’s and Mariners where in it this year. One could argue that a few errors or trick hops could’ve changed the outcome of the last few years, big money or not.

7

When was the last time a World Series winning team had the league’s home run champion? It’s been twenty years (the Phillies in 1980.) So I guess having a home run champion means you can’t compete.

When was the last time a team with a Most Valuable Player won the World Series? It’s been twelve years, actually (the Dodgers in 1988.) So I guess having MVPs prevents you from winning.

8

Why, yes. My question is: HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A FREAKING STATISTICS CLASS? Oakland is what is known as a “fluke.” And “fluke” is often defined in your average dictionary, so you won’t have to go far to look it up.

Look, you have ably proved that money is not a 100% indicator of success in baseball. WAY TO GO!!! The real point is that richer teams have a far larger margin for error. If the Yankees sign an expensive pitcher who goes into the tank, they will probably not be hurt because they can just go out and grab another fabulous free agent. If the Royals make the same mistake, it is devastating.

9

**

I don’t think that my ststistcs classes ever mentioned the A’s, or flukes. I also think that the A’s have a great young pitching staff and a team with some power and manager who does a good job. And they contended last year until the final week.

This is not a fluke, dick cheese. This is a team on the rise thanks to a lot of the things the Yanks had a few years back: Young, home-grown talent and a manager who does a great job of melding it all.

Thank you. This is all I planned on proving. The only thing you have proved with your bitching here and in other threads is that you don’t like the Yankees. Well, I asked them all as they prepared for their third parade down the Canyon of Heroes and to a man they said they never even heard of you.

I suggest you simply stop following baseball until such a cap is included, since that seems to be the whole reason the Yanks have dominated recently (according to your warped worldview at any rate). The Yankees won thanks to, mostly, players who came up in their system. If there was a cap, the Yankees wouldn’t be able to pay Derek Jeter what he was worth. So he would have to gon elsewhere. This happens all the time in cap leagues. Is this good for the game?

Caps have advantages and disadvantages to them, and neither a capped league or an uncapped league really does anything to change the fundamental problems: Lack of loyalty to a franchise by a player and vice versa.

Ultimately, the Yankees did not win by spending the most, which I showed. They won by spending the most wisely. And no amount of incessant whining on your part will change this fact.

Read the sig…

Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, three weeks, 15 hours, 52 minutes and 51 seconds.
8186 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,023.31.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 10 hours, 10 minutes.

THE YANKEES WIN! THAAAAAAH YANKEES WIN!
1996 · 1998 ··· WORLD CHAMPIONS ··· 1999 · 2000
26 Titles! The #1 Dynasty of all-time!
And most importantly… RULERS OF NYC!!*

10

What this is a lesson in the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions. And while these are not absolutes they are pretty close:

Having money you are willing to spend is necessary for sustained success in baseball, but it is not sufficient.

Certainly small budget teams will creep in and contend in any given year, due to the confluence of skilled development of young players and some luck. But these teams cannot maintain that success in the current enviroment. Look at the Reds, they were the team everyone was pointing at last year aas the samll budget team that could, but where were they this year. I expect the A’s may have one more good season in them before their young players become too pricey. And this highlights the other misconception, on the TV they were defending the Yankees saying how they didn’t buy a pennant, how they have all this home-grown talent. But these days it is about being able to keep you talent that is important. It is simply semantics to differentiate between home-grown players, free agents or rent-a-players.

11

Pittsburgh Pirates were in much this same situation in the early '90s, 3 straight Division Titles mostly with players who came up through their system. Barry bonds, Bobby Bonilla, Jay Bell, Denny Neagle et al now play for other teams. Why? The Pirates couldn’t afford to keep them. Why? Because some teams make MUCH more money than they do. A few teams do not have this problem. Is this good for the game?

Hmmm, come to think of it, 2 of those players now play for the Yankees.

I am not convinced that a Cap is the answer. The reason that Pro Football does well is less because of the Cap and more because of the revenue sharing. The Cap, in fact, seems to have created a new kind of Have/Have not system among types of players. What is left to pay your left tackle after paying your QB 8 mil?

I don’t hate the Yankees, but I do wish St. Louis would have had a chance in the playoffs. They just happened to have won play in a VARY weak division. But I do hate the Orioles. I loved that Playoff game with the fan-induced Home Run, you know which one I’m talking about.

12

And I guess we’ll find out in the next couple of years whether or not they can KEEP everyone. Or is Jason Giambi going to end up a Yankee, too?

**

And what does their having heard of me have to do with ANYTHING??? Oh yeah, I forgot – you make dumbass remarks with unbelievable frequency. Pardon me.

If that’s all you planned on proving, then I have wildly overestimated you as an opponent. It’s pretty meaningless. Did anybody ever advance this as an argument in the first place?

**

I don’t know if it’s good or bad for the league. It may be inconvenient for Mr. Jeter, but that’s not my problem.

I don’t think I’ve ever really liked baseball that much. I have always liked basketball and football much better. I just wanted to jump in when the people who defend the current, screwed-up system – and who just HAPPEN to like the team that benefits – advanced their ludicrous arguments in support.

I had resolved to stay out of this, having gone 12 rounds with you and Soup over this, but your last post was so simpleminded that I was inexorably drawn back in.

**

Yes, they spent wisely – I’m not denying that. But if they ever spend unwisely, it’s not a big problem because they’ve got millions more in the till.

I did read the sig. It was written by someone whose favorite team wins because the system is rigged in its favor. I guess if you’re proud of that, that’s fine, I guess. I’d hate to see what would happen if the Yankees couldn’t buy their problems away. I guess we won’t find out next year, either – I heard the Yankees are upping their payroll to $120 million a year.

13

Soup wrote:

Two words:
“George” “Steinbrenner”.

14

**

The ironic part is that they can in an uncapped league. Whereas, the choice is often not even there for teams in leagues with salary caps.

Tell the Oakland A’s to play their fucking players! And don’t give me any of this “small market” shit - Oakland is in the middle of the 4th biggest market (Arbitron) in this country. It’s a market big enough to support TWO teams (both of whom made the playoffs), maybe they can support a team that wins too?

Of course, that would only make your position even weaker.

**

No. Your problem is you don’t like the Yankees. Well, as I said, that’s tough.

**

You sure bitch a lot about it.

**

Every argument I have made is backed by FACTS, something that you do not have.

**

Maybe a simple-minded person didn’t understand what I said. I suggest you find one - that person’s mind still probably works better than yours does.

**

Right… Like the Orioles and Dodgers… :rolleyes:

Yer pal,
Satan

*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Six months, three weeks, 19 hours, 4 minutes and 23 seconds.
8191 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,023.97.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 10 hours, 35 minutes.

THE YANKEES WIN! THAAAAAAH YANKEES WIN!
1996 · 1998 ··· WORLD CHAMPIONS ··· 1999 · 2000
26 Titles! The #1 Dynasty of all-time!
And most importantly… RULERS OF NYC!!*

15

Snooopy,

What about all the small market teams (Padres, A’s, Phillies, Rangers, Twins, Cardinals) that HAVE participated in the playoffs and World Series in the last few years? And again, what about the fact that before 1996, the Yankees hadn’t won for 18 years? I understand that because the Yankees have won 4 out of the last 5 Series that it appears they’re “buying” the title. But, to use your term, couldn’t that be a “fluke”? But for a few twists of fate, the Orioles, Indians, Mariners, A’s, and Rangers could have been in the World Series over the past 5 seasons. You can’t blame it all on money.

16

That’s funny; among flukes you seem to have forgotten the 2000 New York Yankees, the second-worst team to ever win the World Series, who only made the playoffs because they were in the weakest division in baseball.

Perhaps you can name some of the fabulous free agents the Yankees have signed. Most of their free agents played like crap this year. Moneywise, the biggest free agent acquisition on the team this eyar was Tino Martinez, who has been there for years and who is one of the worst first basemen in the major leagues, and will almost certainly be replaced by a minor leaguer (Nick Johnson) within twelve months.

17

And everybody would care about an Oakland-St. Louis Series? Come on. I didn’t care about the Series nearly as much in the years when a NYC team wasn’t in it. I watched it because it was the baseball championship, but I didn’t give a rodent’s rectum who won. Doesn’t matter if it’s the Bay Series or that asinine KC-St.Loo Series back in the 80s. Nobody is going to take as much of an interest in the World Series if the team they root for or their local team isn’t in it.

Let me guess…Seattle fan? Nope. Boston? Nope. St. Louis? Gee, LateComer, I give up. Which team do you root for that, had they been in the World Series, this post never would have been written?

Sheesh Louise, folks, I’m a Mets fan, and I’m not nearly as bitter about all this as you weenies.

Satan, my man, one of these days I’ll stand you to a beer to congratulate you on the Yankees victory this past October.

18

Yes, it could be a fluke. We will find out in a few years. But I don’t think it is a fluke. I think the rich teams will continue to dominate in the playoffs. Poorer teams will make appearances in the playoffs every now and then because, hell, the ball does bounce in weird ways every now and then (I can’t blame it all on money, true, but I can blame most of it). And people will become bored with baseball because the same couple of teams always win.

Here are a couple of links. One is a column by George Will, the other is an excerpt from Bob Costas’ book. You may think they’re as full of crap as I am, but it’s certainly more eloquent crap than mine, if nothing else. Enjoy.

http://www.naplesnews.com/today/editorial/d126179a.htm

http://4nonfiction.4anything.com/network-frame/0,1855,16294-69580,00.html

19

Ahem…

National League West

DODGERS 86 76 .531 11
ARIZONA 85 77 .525 12
COLORADO 82 80 .506 15

2nd place. 10 games over .500. Only 1 game poorer than the World Champs.

Go Dodgers in 2001!!! Woohoo!!

20

Snoooopy -

Thanks for the links. I’ve been meaning to pick up Bob Costas’ book when it goes to paperback.

What can I say? It’s an unfair system, and needs change. I can understand a Pittsburgh or Kansas City fan’s frustration when they see another young player leave for big money. You can’t blame the player, and you can’t blame the team that signs him. Money is how teams win now, and yes, it’s not fair.

I don’t like being made to feel that I can’t enjoy a Yankee championship. I’ve stuck with them through some terrible seasons, so I’m in baseball heaven now. I will admit though, as fun as it was to watch them steamroll teams in '98, I have more vivid memories of the comeback of 1978, when every game meant something. Baseball has to restore parity somehow, to let more fans experience that feeling.

Maybe instead of arguing among ourselves, we should be writing and e-mailing Major League Baseball’s offices with our concerns.