I work in a small office that is about 75% Jewish, in an industry that is also heavily Jewish. (I don’t know the exact percentage, but can report that on the Jewish high holy days, the phone scarcely rings and it is understood that a large number of the people we usually work with are out.) I am not Jewish.
Fairly regularly at work, I’ll hear someone ask, “Is this good for the Jews?” It happens a couple times a month, sometimes a few times a week. It’s never said directly to me; rather, I’ll overhear someone say it on the phone, or when walking past a meeting I’m not part of, or see it in an e-mail - so it’s probably said more often than I’m even aware of. It’s never said when matters of actual Judaism are concerned (such matters generally being not part of our business); instead, it seems to be invoked when an opportunity has presented itself or a deal is being struck and a decision has to be made.
What do you think of this? I was surprised to hear it the first time, because while I knew the phrase I thought it was a relic of the early 20th century and had never heard it used in earnest. And while I’m not super PC or easily offended, I have to admit that I find it increasingly…annoying. I don’t think it’s said maliciously, and usually it’s probably said part-jokingly. But still, it’s used often enough to strike me as some mixture of inappropriate/exclusionary/hypocritical in this day and age. If it were just a mindless linguistic tic that were thrown around the office to gentile and Jew alike, it might still be thoughtless but probably wouldn’t be as grating. That it’s only said (as far as I can tell) to and among Jews somehow makes it worse.
Am I misreading this? Or am I justified in being irritated? I want to be clear that my panties aren’t in a knot over this; but like I said, it’s starting to annoy, and I’d like to get some other opinions.
ETA: Aaaand, I posted this in the wrong forum. Mods, can you move to IMHO? Thanks -
I was raised Jewish, but have never heard this phrase. Based on your description of its use, my opinion of it is the same as yours. It’s probably meant to mean “Are we all in agreement on this?” and with a certain amount of humor, but it still makes me uncomfortable. And the fact that it’s never said in your presence makes it seem exclusionary. I wonder how your coworkers would react if you expressed your feelings about it.
I have hardly ever heard Jews use that phrase, and the few times I did, the question was asked in jest.
That wasn’t always the case, of course. Generations ago, I don’t doubt that many (maybe most) Jews assessed every issue (political, cultural, whatever) by one standard: Is this good for OUR people? And considering how oppressed Jews have been in MANY societies, that was understandable.
But it’s been a long time since most Jews felt like persecuted outsiders in the United States, and they don’t have to think that way any more.
I should mention that I think I’ve only heard this from people aged, say, 35+. Part of my surprise was that this is hardly the first time I’ve been around a lot of Jews (e.g. in college), but as I said, I’d never heard the phrase used seriously before. So there’s probably some age component at work here.
I would have thought so, too. Part of what got me thinking about this was a coworker telling me today that she likes to go to a Catholic church near her around Christmastime to listen to the music, even though (she confidently asserted) “they wouldn’t like Jews being there”.
…Which I suppose could theoretically be true at that particular church. But having been raised Catholic (which she knows) and considering where we live (New York City) it’s *vastly *at odds with anything I’d expect. I said I was sure it wouldn’t be a problem, but she (politely) acted like I was naive. That same mindset might explain her use of the “good for the Jews” line (she used it earlier this week), but it still seems pretty out of date to me.
Hmmm, this last comment makes her sound a little culturally ‘closeted’, for want of a better word. Is she fairly orthodox? Or mixes mostly with Jewish people? I think it’s pretty normal for minorities or ‘sub-groups’, whatever we want to call them, to adopt certain bonding traits, including how they refer to their group and adopting phrases that create a ‘club’ mentality. It’s certainly apparent within the gay community - I’m conscious that amongst my friends, how we behave and talk with each other as a group could feel exclusionary to any ‘outsiders’ (read: straight people). I don’t think there’s anything nasty about it, and I certainly wouldn’t take offense if it isn’t twisted around to being disparaging to outsiders.
I spent a few years being manipulated and controlled by an old fart of a narcissist who also happened to be Jewish. He would say it in earnest. If something wasn’t good for the Jews, it was therefore anti-Semitic. I heard a whole lot about me being a shiksa, during that time.
When I finally grew a pair and broke away from his influence he tried to get me fired on grounds of anti-Semitism.
So that’s where I heard it first. The only other time I’ve heard it used is in Vicki Iovine’s “Girlfriend’s Guide” books, where she proposes another mindset unique to new moms called “Is It Good For The Kids?”
The only time I’ve heard it is at family gatherings, a sort of snarky, self-mocking way amongst those of us who are sending up how certain relatives, mostly our right-wing uber-Zionist minority (there are literally only two of 'em in my admittedly not huge extended family) see everything through a filter of “how will ___ affect Israel.” So as they’re ranting away, others of us will go,
“Did you hear there’s gonna be a big snowstorm on Tuesday?”
“Yes, but what does it mean for the Jews?”
“The Knicks actually won a game!”
“Good for them, but what does it mean for the Jews?”
That kinda thing. Okay, not hilarious, but any way we can get a dig in when our family gathers en masse and these two start their usual boring screeds is a blessing.
Is this really any different than a group of black co-workers who all call each other the ‘N-word’ within their group? Of course they don’t do it when outsiders are present and would certainly not allow a white co-worker to use the term. Since the Jew comment is less offensive, they are obviously comfortable using it around outsiders, and I personally think it is the opposite of exclusionary. The fact you would hear this term probably means you are considered “one of us”. I’m sure they mean it in a generic humorous way like “is this good for our company?” when they say it, rather than a “is this good for the Jewish members of our company, but not that jerk non-Jew Rodgers01”
I’ve never heard this expression used, but in the context of the OP it’d make sense if his company provides phone sex*, and the employees in question serve an elderly Jewish clientele.
“Is it good for the Jews?”
“yes…yes…YES!!”
*From what I’ve heard, this “industry” is largely controlled by Catholics, though.
If they are otherwise nice and respectable towards you, I would treat it as one of those harmless inside joke things that develop within cultural groups, especially those with a tradition of self-mockery or deprecation. I’ve never heard the expression, and I find it kind of funny. But then again, I tend to engage in similar behavior when it comes to black people.
For instance, often another black coworker and I will speak in exaggerated ebonics when we’re joking around…or perhaps not exactly ebonics but we’ll use certain slang that’s common among black people. Like, if we’re both studying a map of river and streams, I’ll say, gesturing towards an area on the map, “They’ve got bacteria impairments all up and through here.” Laughs always ensue for some reason. I would not use this expression with a white coworker, even if we were friendly with one another and regularly swapped funnyisms of another nature. It just wouldn’t be natural for some reason.
Or yesterday, my black coworker wished me a “Mer’ Chri’mah”…mocking a certain type of old-folk blaccent from the Deep South. Probably no one but me and our boss (who’s black) would find it hilarious or “get it.”
Sometimes I imagine people have overheard us and feel like we’re being exclusionary with our humor. I imagine it would be “worse” if we were in a predominately black environment because we would naturally forget about the small number of people amongst us who wouldn’t “get it.” But it wouldn’t be intentional at all, which I think is an important criterion for something to be called “offensive.”
Yeah. It boggled my mind when I learned that bigotry against Jews wasn’t just some weird Germain thing in the 1930s-40s. Heck, the first time I encountered it in real life was that guy from Fox saying stuff about Jon Stewart.
Yeah, I was very culturally isolated, and still live in a culturally isolated town.
Well, I’m Israeli, and when I’m with other Jews and talking about politics, we’ll talk American politics, and about halfway through the conversation turn to how American politics effect Israel. I don’t know if two American Jews who are talking politics will talk about Israel, or if they’ll get to that topic at the same speed as me.
I haven’t heard that particular expression used, but I have heard others that mean the same.
My family too, and friends. We don’t have the right-wing uber-Zionist relatives that I’m aware of, but yeah the “Hey, did you hear Mekhi Phifer is going to be in Torchwood?”/“Yes, but what does it mean for the Jews?” joke, boy, it’s a killer!
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say it in earnest. I mean, except about things that actually relate to the global Jewish population, like Israel’s actions.
“Hey, did you hear about Operation Cast Lead?”
“Yes, and what does that mean for the Jews?”
“Probably a rise in antisemitic hate crimes across the globe!”
“Fuck.”
My parents came to the U.S. from Europe in 1958. My father had gotten a job in a chemical plant in Pennsylvania. The HR director (back then it was called “Personnel”) was helping my parents get settled in their new life in America. As she was driving them around, she asked them casually, “Say, what religion are you folks?”
My Dad said, hesitatingly, “Uh, we’re Jewish.”
So the lady said, “Oh, in that case I’ll have to find you a synagogue,”, she said, matter-of-factly.
My Dad sighed, and then he knew he really was in a different place. In the old country, he told me, if ever mentioned to a Christian that he was Jewish, bad things usually followed.
