I work in retail sales. Many people use credit and debit cards.
Often there is no signature on the back or CID is written in place of signature.
I normally ask to see an ID in that case. I thought that was the reason for them not signing the card. Most people are fine with that and even thank me for asking to see the ID.
I am not sure that this helps fight fraud but it is the popular notion.
Now to the question of debit cards. Yesterday a man gave me a card for payment and as it was not signed,
I asked to see his ID. He told me it was a debit card and that it was** illegal for me to ask for his ID for a debit card. **
He told me to check with my lawyer.
Not having a member of the bar on retainer (I did mention I am a retail clerk) I come to you for help.
I sure don’t want to do anything as illegal. :rolleyes: I just want to do my part to fight fraud. Is there a law (state or federal) about asking for ID for debit card as opposed to credit cards?
PS I am in South Carolina and deal with many from other states.
According to this article,the credit card companies themselves disallow their merchants from preventing purchases w/o showing an ID card.: Can a merchant require ID for a credit or debit card purchase?
I have mixed feelings about this as IT may make some credit card thieves less likely to commit fraud if they know that they’ll be asked for ID. But I also may find myself in a situation where I forget my ID and I need to make a purchase.
Illegal? With credit cards if the issuer doesn’t allow ID checks, that does not make it illegal, right?
Google isn’t helping me find a cite, but IIRC in the UK a merchant is supposed to reject cards without a signature. ‘See ID’ or similar invalidates the card.
I assume it’s in the merchant agreement.
The rule with credit cards was - if the card is present, and the signatures match, and the card is not expired, then the merchant will get their money; if the client faked the signature, the credit card company ate the loss (by charging high interest rates…). Therefore there is no need to check for ID. The selling point for credit cards was that it was all you needed.
I don’t know about debit, but I assume the logic is similar. The transaction either goes through or does not go through on the debit machine. If it goes through, it indicates there was a valid card as far as mag-stripe card reading is concerned. The PIN was correct. The cardholder agreement says cardholders are liable for all transactions using their PIN, so the merchant is not going to lose money. Why would the merchant need to check ID?
I assume the same merchant agreement applies, the card by itself is sufficient ID. The merchant is not required to ask for ID, and cannot refuse a transaction for lack of other ID. So… Not illegal, just against the agreement.
I suppose if the merchant refuses, the cardholder can complain to the bank. If the bank is feeling particularly offended and wants to help their customers (if!) they may warn or cut off the merchant.
Insanity …
If a merchant has the reputation of accepting bogus debit cards, I myself would never use mine at that retail shop, meaning I would never do business there. I’m one of those people who thank cashiers for asking. As pointed out above, the cashier is only protecting me, and my money. Well, I take that very personally.
The customer said you should check with your lawyer … next time say you checked with the local District Attorney, and (s)he said to give her/him a call if you suspected fraud. Then ask the gentleman(woman) to please wait until the police arrive and and y’all can sort it out downtown.
What if the card isn’t signed? The local Post Office will not accept a credit card that isn’t signed, and they won’t accept it if you sign it in front of them.
I had that happen with a new card I had just received. I walked away from the counter, signed, returned. All was good.
The guy is wrong.
First it has nothing to do with illegal, there is no violation in law for asking to see an ID. If someone told me it was illegal to ask for ID, my snap response would be 'I’m pretty sure you’re user agreement doesn’t invalidate my First Amendment rights. He is welcome to refuse to show ID and you are welcome to refuse service
Second if he is using it as a debit card he is correct that you don’t need to see an ID, that is because in order to use it as a debit card the user has to enter the correct PIN, the debit card issuer usually considers this sufficient protection against fraud.
If the debit card has the logo of an accepted credit card, it can be used as a credit card. If it is used as a credit card the user and vendor must abide by the credit card issuers contracts. All major credit cards allow you to ask for ID as protection against fraud if the signatures don’t match. If the signature does match you shouldn’t be asking for ID. This is kinda a nuisance with most POS systems because you run a card before you see their signature, the credit card companies expect you to back out the sale if you suspect fraud.
As to signatures, the signature must match the signature on the card. If the signature line says ‘see ID’ and they sign the card ‘see ID’ and that sufficiently matches you don’t need to ask for an ID. If they sign anything that doesn’t sufficiently match the back of the card or the card is unsigned you can ask for an ID. If the ID matches the person standing in front of you and the card good to go. If you still suspect fraud you can record the ID information. If they can’t produce an ID or it does not match, you cancel the transaction and send them on their way. You have no right to hold their card or ID, you can inform the police and let them handle it if they find the person.
The last time I checked my merchant agreement it said that we can’t ask for ID as a matter of course. That is, we can’t ALWAYS ask for an ID, but if something seems wrong we can.
You can tell that guy his card isn’t valid since it wasn’t signed. Says so right on that actual card.
If someone started giving me that hard of a time I would have (and have) refused the sale. At that point I would have worried that the card wasn’t theirs.
I’ve had people get mad at me when I ask for their ID. “But ma’am, it says CID on it” “Well, I don’t have my ID on me” or “Are you really going to make me run all the way back out to my car?” “Yes, you’re the one that wrote it. If that card was stolen and someone used it here, would you be mad at me if I didn’t check for the ID?”
BTW, who writes CID on their card and then leaves their ID in their car. Or writes CID on their card and then lets their daughter use their card (I turned that one down).
I’d just say “Cite?”
And the reply would likely be, “20/20”.
ETA: Cite: real world experience.
This is just anecdotal, but I haven’t had to hand my debit card to a cashier in a long time. Everywhere I go, the grocery store, pharmacy, the post office, has a scanner I just slide my card through and enter my PIN. I even buy gas at the pump with my debit card. So, no handing my card over, no need to check for a signature, no request for an ID. I know not all businesses are set up with scanners at the checkout, but for me, this hasn’t even been a thing.
::scratches head::
What does that have to do with this thread since it’s specifically about having to hand your card to the cashier, which, as you said, you still have to do at some places.
You’d have to do it at my store. Three reasons 1)We just don’t have the physical space to mount the terminals. 2)We don’t have registers that integrate with the terminals. 3)We don’t want to buy a terminal for each register (we have two registers that share one terminal).
My credit cards, and my debit card are signed with: “Bobot” AND “Check ID”.
Sometimes I’m asked, sometimes not.
Thanks for all info.
In the shop where I work we do not run a credit card any different than debit. No terminal for the PIN.
Joey P - yes, why would you not have your ID ready if you wrote CID on the card? Makes you wonder what they are thinking.
The shop is small and I am not the owner so help me out with another Credit Card question.
If I run a card that is not legit, will it show me that on the terminal right away? Or will the owner find out later and will we lose money on that sale?
Depends what you mean by “not legit”?
Ask your boss.
If company policy says verify ID, tell the customer to provide some or screw.
What I should have written - Will it come up as “denied” if the card has been reported as stolen or is that only if it is over the limit. I have never seen any message on the cc machine but accepted or denied.
If it’s over the limit, that’s up to the bank, many will still Ok it, but charge the customer a fee for going over the limit. If it’s denied, it could be all kinds of things, anything from being (too far) over the limit, to not paying their bills, to being reported as stolen, to having a new card that they didn’t activate…but, it’s always your fault “Just run it again, it should be fine”. I’ve had customers call me and demand to know 'why the cashier declined their card" “Uh, ma’am, call the number on the card, it wasn’t my decision to make, I can make some random guesses, but they can tell you for sure what the problem was”. I always think it’s funny when people tell me they should get to keep the stuff anyways since the card should have gone through. Yeah, it doesn’t work that way.
Also, these days they rarely tell us any more then Approved or Declined (sometimes incorrect PIN for debit). Sometimes we’ll get a “Call Customer Service” but rarely and years and years ago we used to get messages that said “Confiscate Card” But they don’t do that anymore. Partially because everyone uses electronic terminals so once the card is turned off it’s not going to work and partially because, I think, they realized it put cashiers in very awkward and sometimes dangerous positions.