md2000 hit the nail on the head. It’s against the standard Visa / MC merchant agreement to allow the merchant to ask for ID. They make money by people using their cards & they want it as easy as possible for people to use their cards; having to carry/get out other ID violates that principle.
Then Visa will tell you to change your policy or stop taking their cards (technically they’ll revoke your privilege to take their cards). I’ve seen it happen.
That’s true for signed cards. But the question in the OP was specifically about someone presenting an unsigned card. In that case, the Visa merchant agreement specifically says that the merchant should ask for ID and ask the customer to sign the card. PDF cite. (See page 33.)
Dewey Finn thanks so much for that cite. I have never been trained by my manager or owner. One of the other workers trained me when I started this job. None of us were given this info.
Ah well that is working in a low pay retail job.
Thanks all for your help.
You’re welcome. I don’t know what Mastercard’s merchant agreement says, but I’ll bet it’s similar.
It’s the same here in the USA. Anything except your signature invalidates the card.
Cards have so many features to prevent fraud; being able to turn your card on and off, text notification of purchases, throwaway numbers for online purchases, you name it. The New York Times had a great article on the safeguards available a couple of weeks ago.
Legal advice is best suited to IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
It seems to me to be dangerous to let someone change your store policy on financial security by badgering you with vague threats of how you’re breaking the law. Even if I was 90% convinced that the person was right, I think in that case I’d
If they argued, I’d repeat steps 1-3, with just enough variations in my language to keep from being blatantly rude, until they got bored and left.
Sure, I might promise to check with my manager, and I might say that I’d pass along their warning of dire legal consequences, and I might commiserate with them when they complain about what a pile of crap the store policy is–but I’d do my best not to budge an inch.
I agree with your first point.
Your second point contradicts the first and the third contradicts your second…
Nope, you say “Sorry, you’d have to talk to my boss, this is what they tell me to do” This deflects the persons anger from you to me. I assure you, as ‘the boss’ I’m much, much better at handling this then my cashiers. As you can see from my posts above, I’m much quicker to know the terms of my merchant agreement than they are or to tell them that their card isn’t valid to begin with, which they probably didn’t know. Hell, at that point all they have to do is sign the card then sign the paper.
I’ve also got no problem cancelling the sale if I start getting the feeling they’re trying to tricking me into using a stolen card or one they don’t have permission to use.
There’s a lot of things in the merchant agreement that is routinely violated by small business. Asking for ID, requiring a minimum purchase for credit cards, etc. This is assuming that the particular merchant doesn’t have a different merchant agreement.
Your only recourse is to contact the credit card issuing company and persuade them to take action against the business. I’m thinking that the business probably generates more revenue for the credit card company that you do with your purchase volume - depending on who you are. So good luck!
I have refused to show ID with my credit card purchase for a couple reasons…
[ul]
[li]The principle of it all[/li][li]I’d already used the point of sale machine and the transaction was already processed. It seemed pretty stupid to check ID afterwards[/li][li]The cashier asked me to see it after I’d put my card back in my wallet and back in my pocket. [/li][/ul]
I simply say that I am not required to provide ID as my card is properly signed. Essentially, I’m challenging them to refuse the sale. They’ve already rung and bagged my items. If they will not back down, they can cancel the sale, and I’m willing to walk. Of course, I’ll ask to speak to a manager and hold up the line until I do. On the occasion where the manager is called, every single time the manager has said to let the transaction process through without ID.
You’re wrong on a handful of points here and kinda being a jerk about it. It’s not the cashiers fault, don’t make it their problem.
The merchant IS allowed to have a minimum transaction fee, that’s no longer in the merchant agreement.
The merchant IS allowed to ask for an ID, just not as a matter of course. They can ask for an ID even with a signed card under certain circumstances and maybe you met them and you refuse to show it to them ‘because you already put it away’, I might ask you to produce it anyways. When someone get sketchy like that, I start to wonder what they’re hiding and I’ll (as a ‘cashier’) stand my ground.
From how I understand it, if someone writes ‘CID’ or ‘See ID’ on the credit card their signature better match what they sign on the slip (or e-slip). Meaning they sign the slip CID (or likewise matching the CC signature). There is no responsibility given to you (as a merchant) other to see that the signatures match and if you accept a signature vastly different from what is written on the signature line that casts the fault on you.
CID on the signature line of a CC means nothing but the person’s signature - if it doesn’t match then the risk is yours.
IIRC, any merchant that accepts a transaction using a card with no signature is liable for any fraudulent use. The merchant agreements require a signature on their cards.
@Bone
From the Visa Merchant Agreement “Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID except in the specific circumstances discussed in this guide, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance”
I’m not talking about no signature, but if the card holder has signed their card CID, or See ID or likewise, that is their signature.
Aside: My personal signature does not bear any resemblance to my name nor is it legally required to do so- but it is my legal signature. Who am I to question someone elses signature if any consistent signature is legally accepted and all that is required that they match. ‘CID’ signed on back of the card does not look like ‘John J Smith’ written on the slip. CID becomes their legal signature in this case.
Exactly. They can ask and I can refuse. Sale should proceed. Right?
I’m not rude to the cashier in any way. I tell them politely and clearly that I’m not providing ID. If they say some form of, “I can’t process the sale without ID”, then I say, “I think you can, but if you’re not comfortable then please ask for your manager, I’ll wait.”
If the manager decides that they don’t want the sale, that’s fine with me. It’s never happened so far.
What principle are you standing up for, exactly, when you inconvenience yourself, the cashier, and anyone who may be in line behind you in that way?
That I don’t have to show my ID for the sale to proceed and that asking for ID after the fact is pointless and inconvenient to the customer.
Pointless aside: Until a couple of years ago, I worked in the hotel business. For about two years, I worked as the night auditor at a budget motel just off interstate 95, and we got more than our share of sketchy characters. As part of the check-in policy, potential guests were required to present ID before they could book a room. More than once, roadside attorneys tried to school me on merchant agreements, and how I couldn’t ask them for ID in order for them to use their credit/debit cards. I always politely agreed, but pointed out that I could and would require an ID before I’d rent a room. If it happened that the ID didn’t match the method of payment, well… No, I can’t accept that card. And yes, you are free to consult with your attorney or with the police if you believe that the hotel’s policy is illegal or discriminatory.
(Hint: It’s not. And the policy is in place for everyone, whether they’re paying cash, paying with a card, or using guest reward points to pay for the stay. In the hotel business, the merchant entrusts the guest with a room valued at many thousands of dollars, for a very small fraction of the actual cost of repairing or replacing the durable goods in that room. The merchant needs to know that the guest is of legal age to sign an enforceable contract - the registration card, which details what happens if damage occurs to the room - and exactly whom is taking on that responsibility. And yes, in everything from a Hilton flagship hotel to a roadside Econolodge, I’ve had to present bills for malicious or negiligent damage. People are GROSS, y’all!)
You shoot the customer!?!:eek: