Well, those people may be normal and nice, but they are also wrong.
Vocabulary is a component of how you treat people. And here’s what you’re not getting. Saying “I can call Bob a nigger, that’s just how we talk” is not the same thing as saying “I can call Bob a shithead, that’s just how we talk.” I get that people, mostly in situations where it’s mostly guys, have this bust-on-each-other type of interaction. But when you call someone a racial slur in order to bust on them, that’s the same thing as saying that race is a bad thing to be. It’s not just a random insult, it’s an insult that implies that ol’Bob is something beneath you, like Black people are. That is why your opinion and Bob’s opinion about calling him that word isn’t what’s relevant in terms of why it’s not acceptable.
How you treat people includes what you say to them or about them. Speech is action. I judge people by what they do and what they say.
I know it’s very difficult, nearly impossible, to be a white person in this world. My goodness, use a few racial slurs and people all of a sudden think you mean them.
If Bob and I are in a locked room, away from the rest of civilisation, are our opinions relevant then? What if we get stuck in a time-warp and come back to a human-free Earth in 20000 years time? Then would the origins of the word be relevant?
(I know this is a stupid question, but I’m asking to try and get some idea of where the line is drawn between “you can’t use that word, too much history” and “ok, guess you can use it now, no one who is likely to be offended will hear it.” For me, people set their own limits on conversation. I have no problem with my friends calling me whatever insults they like. However, someone who doesn’t know me would get a very different response. When dealing with strangers, social rules and conventions should apply. When dealing with your friends, your own rules apply. I don’t see anything wrong with this.)
I am actually more offended that I apparently have no right to speak up because I “am not a gamer”. What the fuck does that even mean? I’ve been “gaming” on one platform or another since I was 10 and had my Atari 2600. That would be about 25 years. I’ve played online games, RPGs, strategy, SHMUPs, MMPORGs. You name it I’ve tried it.
So if I get on an online game and ask for some fucking standards it’s all “You’re not a gamer, you just have to suck it up and deal.” Which of course just makes me not want to play at all.
Do you not understand that you are driving people away with this bullshit? Not all of you on online games are teenagers! Some of you are definitely old enough to know better (if you’re Miller’s age, I’m almost positive Miller is older than me.)
But don’t worry. If you are throwing around racial slurs I don’t actually think you are racist. No, not me. I just think you are racist OR ignorant OR obnoxious or maybe a combination of all three. Better?
Yeah, I think she’s covered the three major possibilities. Racist, ignorant, or obnoxious. If you call your white buddy your ‘nigger’, then either you mean it as an insult, a playful insult/term of endearment, or a provocation to those who might overhear. In which case you would be racist, ignorant, or obnoxious respectively.
I do think it’s a lead pipe cinch he’s a racist or a jerk. If you go around calling people “nigger” cavalierly and think that shit is funny, you’re a jerk. He may not hate black people, but he’s an idiot.
Yes, it can. And it’s always a good idea to be careful with accusations of racism and other things of that type. But I don’t think this is a tough case to evaluate.
Easily? It’s never happened to me and it’s never almost happened. It is actually very easy to go through life without casually using racial and ethnic slurs, and I don’t live in fear that someone is going to call me a racist if I ever get into a conversation about the works of Mark Twain, for example.
It’s not either/or. Nobody has to choose between being a nice person and making bigoted comments. I think if you give lots of money to charity and go around calling people nigger and kike and chink all the time, we can safely say you’ve got some serious issues.
I’ve been laughing about this all damn day. You seriously propose that people offended by racial slurs are more culturally insensitive than those using them? Some people in another country ripped a highly offensive, divisive word out of its historical and cultural context and feel free to use it with impunity, and that makes us insensitive? Gimme a break. Here’s a friendly tip for successful international diplomacy: don’t fucking use a racial slur whose meaning you have no contextual basis to understand or comprehend. It is the epitome of cultural insensitivity to dismiss centuries of oppression, hardship and prejudice with a hand-wave that we’re all just overreacting.
First of all: they are probably saying “nigga,” not “niggER.” The “nigga” usage is maybe acceptable colloquially if the people saying it have “street cred”. The “niggER” usage is never really appropriate unless you are quoting someone else in an objective context, and even then, so many people go out of their way to not say the word that it’s still not fully accepted even then.
Second: they may be using this word at home, but I doubt they’re saying it in public, especially around actual black people. You mentioned one of the kids is African - I’ll assume this means he is from an African country and therefore not part of what is considered “Black” American culture. He’s probably less hung up about the phrase than an American-born black person who grew up in American “black culture.”
I think you really should discourage these kids from using the word. It is bound to get them in trouble.
No, that’s not what I said. What I said was, why should I treat that person any better than I’d treat a racist? In this particular context, the behavior of the guy described in the OP is identical to the behavior of a racist. Therefore, my reaction to both people is going to be the same. The reaction, in both cases, is generalized disgust. Whether I should be disgusted because the person is a racist, or disgusted because the person thinks it’s the height of hilarity to act like a racist in public, is largely academic. Neither behavior is a notable improvement on the other.
The irony here is absolutely massive.
Casually using terms like “nigger” is not a negligible data point. That’s actually a pretty major flag about a person’s personality. Take this excerpt posted by mil0:
You could take the word “nigger” out of that quote entirely, and it only marginally improves it. You still have a post that leaves an overwhelming impression of a emotionally stunted, entitled, whinging little shit.
I’m going to throw you a curve here, and agree with you. There are contexts where you can use language like this without generating a negative impression. A public space inhabited by strangers and vague acquaintances is not one of those contexts. “Nigger” is a hugely insulting term to a great number of people. If you’re not absolutely certain that everyone in earshot of you is either indifferent to the word, or knows you well enough not to get offended by it, don’t use the fucking word! If you screw up, and use the word in front of someone who does get offended by it, apologize. Don’t defend your usage of it. Don’t insist that people shouldn’t be offended by a word that was specifically coined to insult. And for fuck’s sake, don’t act like your the aggrieved party because you thought violating one of society’s strongest (and most justified) taboos would be good for a laugh.
Earlier, you said:
And you’re so close to actually getting it right there. On the internet, you’re surrounded by people from all sorts of places and backgrounds. This means you should be even more careful about what words you use, because you never know who is listening. That’s what makes the actions described in the OP so unacceptable. It demonstrates such an almost toxic level of provincialism, to assume that, because you can say “nigger” around your friends without provoking an incident, that you can use it anywhere you please, and other people should just put up with it. That usage may make you a racist, but by God, it still makes you as big an asshole as one.
Racist? No, not necessarily, maybe even not likely. It’s an unfortunate part of gaming culture, mostly among the people who are young enough to like to piss people off. I try to remove myself from contexts where it’s used, but that’s more because it’s obnoxious and usually indicated I won’t get along with that person than anything. Some people have no filter, they just say shit because it’s provocative, I’m friends with some of these people (though they usually don’t go as far, and only very rarely do things like “fag” slip out, but they definitely curse more often).
I don’t think it’s fair to characterize it as “acting like a racist,” it really is an intent thing, it’s used to be provocative, and in a way, used to rob it of its meaning. I’ve met racists, and very rarely are they so blatant, it’s not usually “you’re such a nigger” or just blurting nigger because it’s shocking. As obnoxious as it is, it’s hardly racism that I’ve witnessed. Usually the real, true, problematic racists I’ve met are perfectly nice people… until they start talking about how all Mexicans except the ones they’ve worked with are lazy bums, or how the coons took over the mall and now it’s a death trap to go there after 11 PM. I’m sure, somewhere, there’s a crossover between absolutely obnoxious shit and legitimate racist, and I’m not defending the use of the language (I really wish it would stop, hence why I don’t abide by it in my presence, it’s nothing if not obnoxious and counterproductive), but I really don’t think it has the intent behind it to be racist in most cases, just overwhelmingly (and deliberately) provocative.
Well, to be fair, your posts in this thread give the overwhelming impression of a haranguing, zealously moralistic and pretentious asshole who hasn’t a clue about competitive gaming and yet still sees fit to judge the worth of a person based on their vernacular in a fraternal setting.
