Is it possible to make a gay man straight?

Yeah, that “permanent” in the OP kinda destroys any possible discussion, but if we assume that “permanent” means “really gay”, as opposed to just “kinda gay”… umm… or something…

Yeah, some people probably could be converted from gay to straight. It would depend on the person. It’s possible to change not only behvaiors, but also mindsets, through psychology. You can cure phobias, change your way of thinking, and all manner of things through psychological treatment. Of course, it’s possible that sexual orientation is hardwired differently then other behvaioral patterns, so maybe not.

An interesting parallel question would be: can people be cured of such things as pedophilia, and other deviant sexual practices? Or do they just learn to suppress such desires?
Jeff

Is it possible to make a straight man gay?

It is not quite a “parallel” question to me, but I think I get your point.

I have nothing against peaceful and non-violent homosexuals, lesbians, or transgenders, or any other deviants if they do not harm anyone else.

I dont consider pedophiles just to be “deviant”.

Pedophiles, like rapists are violent criminals.

I dont think pedophiles or rapists can be changed, reformed, or suppressed, they should be executed so it doesnt matter.

I think I’m gonna stick to the question, “Is it possible to make gay people straight?” and, by corollary, “Is it possible to make straight people gay?”

I would think that the answer is yes.

Gay people say that they did not CHOOSE to be gay, that it was simply something that happened to them, in much the same way that the rest of us wake up one day in Math class and notice that half the class is full of the … um… opposite sex… and right then, Mrs. Humpstonkel suddenly wants you to get up and solve this problem on the board.

Whether or not people choose their sexual orientation is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it can be changed.

Admittedly, I’m theorizing, here, okay? I can’t say I’ve ever TRIED this methodology… but others have, and it certainly seems to have a track record.

Rather than explaining it, though, I’m going to assume that if you’re reading this, you can research it yourself. Start with George Orwell’s “Animal Farm”, then “1984”. “1984” in particular is VERY important to read.

Once you’ve had a chance to digest that, simply go over to google.com and type in “Mind Control”.

By now, many of you already know what I’m talking about. It is possible, by way of torture, aversion therapy, addiction therapy, drugs, and so forth, to convince anyone of damn near anything. I have no doubt in my mind that with the right equipment, textbooks, and drugs, and with a little island out in the Pacific somewhere, where I am the law and Amnesty International can jolly well go get stuffed, and maybe some former Nazis to advise me and help out…

… that I could turn gay people straight and straight people gay and anarchists into Young Republicans, and whatever else you might want.

In theory, anyway.

I do not wish to compare religious persons to Nazis, though. Not by a long shot. But the process of religious conversion involves faith. Any religious person will agree with me there, I think.

And if faith can move mountains, I can only imagine what it might be able to do for penises.

Great, wang ka, we now have a methodology by which anyone in power can force others to conform to his way of thinking – by changing their very ability to think and feel for themselves.

Are you seriously advocating this as the answer to anything whatso-fucking-ever??!!?

Because next to that concept, the idea that some people are going to call gay people evil in sanctimonious terms, and other people, acting out of whatever motivation (standing by Scripture, honest brotherly love, superciliousness, judgmentalism, or whatever) are going to warn them they are Hellbound unless they give up being gay, is no more important than the question of whether one puts a comma after the penultimate item in a series.

:mad:

This OP has got me thinking; let’s say that you could turn someone straight. What would the moral ramifications be?
Would it be immoral to do so? I mean you are destroying some pretty significant portions of the person’s personality.

…ADVOCATING?

HELL, NO!

I was simply answering the question as to whether it was POSSIBLE, that’s all.

Although “a methodology by which anyone in power can force others to conform to his way of thinking – by changing their very ability to think and feel for themselves” could ALSO be used to describe “religious conversion”.

It’s been done.

Not that I’m ADVOCATING DOING IT. Just pointing out that it has been DONE.

Although I don’t know if anyone’s ever studied how long it STAYED done, after the “behavior modification” process was complete.

Then again, I don’t know how long any of those gay guys who got prayed out of being gay stayed non-gay, either.

I guess any answer would be conjecture, really, but as a gay man, I think I would be changed were I to “magically” become gay tomorrow. I doubt I’d lose my friends, but I could no longer relate to them the same way I do now. It would also destroy the relationship I have with my female friends, which is based in part on there being no sexual undertones whatsoever.

[aside]
I have long found that straight women and gay men have a very unusual and often deep understanding. There are no physical issues to make things complicated, and yet there still is the difference in sex. My one close female friend carries her “title” of “fag hag” with pride. :slight_smile:
[/aside]

I have absorbed a few of the gay stereotypes because I find them … comfortable, like for example not being afraid of showing emotions or sensitivity - which straight men are “supposed” to mask or repress (or so the stereotype indicates).

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘straight’. I’m sure it would be possible to condition a person to change their sexual behavior, especially when you consider that most people are not 100% straight or gay, but fall somewhere inbetween.

Homosexual behavior, in men at least, often seems to increase greatly when they are forced into a same-sex environment, whether it’s prison, the military, or an all-boys school. It’s not that these men are turning gay, it’s that they already had such tendencies but their heterosexuality was dominant - when they had no way to find sexual outlet through their preferred form of sexuality some would go for what was available. I’m sure that most homosexuals have some heterosexual tendencies, even if they are as submerged as the homosexual tendencies of your typical straight man. Under the right conditions I’m sure they could be brought to the surface, it probably doesn’t happen as much because people are not frequently put in situations where there is nobody of the same sex around, though the reverse does happen.

Well, it depends on how you define “pedophilia”. If you refer to the act of having sex with small children, then yes, they are criminals. If you mean simply the act of desiring to have sex with small children, then they’re not violent criminals, they’re simply people whose tastes run outside the norm, in much the same way that a homosexual’s desires run outside the norm. I mean, if we’re arguing that one’s sexual tastes are not of one’s own choosing, then the two phenomena are pretty parallel.

The difference is that having sex with someone of the same sex, who is perfectly willing, is acceptable. Having sex with someone who is too young to grasp the ramifications of such, and who is subject to abuse, is unacceptable. The simple wanting of such sex, however, isn’t really of one’s freewill, any more than I could suddenly choose to not like steak. However, I could probably be conditioned to not like steak. Similarly, could a homosexual or pedophile be conditioned into having “normal” sexual desires?
Jeff

The problem is that right now there is no definitive answer as to whether sexual preference is an inherited trait, or if it’s learned behavior, just a lot of suppositions. If we knew the answer to that, that would make the question easy to answer.

Since we don’t know, we have to assume. To do so, and for the sake of argument (and I am not making this analogy in anauthoritary way in the least bit), let’s use another type of human behavior that has caused people to be outcasts, had prominent scientists advocating forced conversions, and to this day is a divisive force on our society…

Hand preference.

Hand preference (as in, rigthy or lefty) is said to be hereditary in nature, but can also be influenced by cultures as a whole and in individuals independent of cultural biases. This is something that some researchers see as analogous to sexual preference.

I had a friend who was right handed and who suffered a serious injury to his right hand, which rendered his right hand useless for some time. In order to function, he learned to write (and do other things) with his left hand. After some time, he because equally adept at using his left hand as he did his right.

Then the bandages came off. We will leave my friend’s actual circumstance (partially because it’s too small a sample to mean much, and partially because I don’t remember) and extrapolate the following possible scenarios:

He could have gone back to his right hand and never used his left again.
He could have continued using his left hand and never went back to his right hand.
He could have become ambidextrous.

The questions that come from this experiment are, assuming the things in quotations are labels, akin to the label “gay” (to differentiate from behavior, which is not in quotations):

Was he still “right-handed” when he was learning to write with his left hand?
Was he still “right-handed” after he learned to write with his left hand?
Is he still “right-handed” in any of the situations above?

Personally, I think that the person is still “right-handed” even if they learn to use their left hands as well or better than their right hands, and even if they like it better. They were born that way, they reached out for food and crayons and mother’s hand with the same preference all along, and it took an injury to change this preference.

Of course, if the person went on to say, “I’m a lefty now,” I would have trouble arguing what they, personally, feel on the subject, and even harder to argue it if they’re writing with their left hand at the time.

It’s a complicated issue; however in matters of self-identification, I am usually one to side with those doing the identifying. If I am to take it at face value when someone says, “I was born gay,” I feel compelled to take it at face value when someone says, “I was gay, but I’m not anymore” to maintain consistency.

However, if you feel that someone hard-wired to be a rigthy will always is a “rigthy,” no matter what “hand” they use or whetever they want to label themselves, then I can see you taking the other side of things. I see the merits in that argument as well.

Of course, until we know within a reasonable degree of error where sexuality comes from, we cannot answer that question at all. When we do figure it out, there are going to be some people who don’t like the answer at all, I fear.

Coercive and dominance behavior are not what it means to be gay. Prison sex is definately coercive. I can’t say much for the military but I don’t see men in the US military who aren’t already gay go hopping into the sack of any of the other men. As for the all-boys schools, boys (and girls in any situation) will generally expirement in their younger years before settling into one of the multiple orientations. Again, please don’t confuse prison rape and coerciveness with homosexual sex.

You know, I never actually considered “Prison sex” to be an indication of homosexuality. I always thought of it more of the behavior of bullies. They want to dominate and control, to have as much power as possible over someone. In the male environment that male prison’s are, the best way to “dominate” another man would be to humilate him by forcing him into the role of the “female” (that is, if the guy is a heterosexual).

I think we’re again mistaking sex for sexuality.

I love my wife; we’ve been married over a quarter century now. 99.95% of what we do together has nothing to do with friction between body parts, but is stuff that we enjoy doing together (like reading these boards, playing a table baseball game, discussing a book we both liked…)

Exactly what and who a person uses owing to convenience and availability in an effort to make him/herself reach orgasm has little or nothing to do with whom he or she falls in love with and wants to make happy.

No you can’t make someone straight gay or you cannot make someone gay straight.
The change would be totally up to the person and not sure about even that.
Some people like playing gay once in a while. I believe people are subject to change but that is up to them and them only. 0887

I don’t want gay guys to go straight. Gay guys in general are better looking, snappier dressers, and better dancers than I am, and I for one don’t want the additional competition!

I’d have to disagree here. For most people, sex is an intimate experience. When you choose someone to spend the rest of your life with, the implication is generally that you are going to have sex with nobody else except your chosen mate. As such, you’re probably going to want to make sure this mate is someone that you will be happy having exclusive sex with, assuming that you care about having sex at all.

Jeff

I suppose, under certain circumstances, I might be willing to have sex with Anne Heche. If it was, like, for world peace or something.

Not all sex in prison is rape. Some people choose to be someone’s ‘bitch’ for protection, figuring it’s better to have regular, less rough consensual sex with one person then to be raped by everyone. The ones in the dominant role often develop feelings for their sex partner, getting extremely jealous and defensive if anyone else shows interest in them, and often doing nice things for them that they wouldn’t have to do were it strictly a sex for protection deal - they actually seem to care for and have fond feelings for their ‘bitch’ and try to form a relationship similar to what they would have on the outside with a lover.

I find the notion silly that any kind of prayer or church program could turn a gay person straight.

But, I do think that medically it may be possible, at least in theory.

Most would agree that people who are gay are born that way, no? It is not a choice, there is some physical or mental difference. If it is genetic, then if our mastery of genes progressed might we not be able to choose the sexuality of our offspring? If there is some physical difference in the brain, wouldn’t eventual mastery of all medicine and brain functions allow an operation to switch between hetero and homo sexual?

Note: I am not saying any of this is a good thing. But, it seems to me to be very possible, at least eventually.