I got into a debate about this at work and wanted to see what you dopers thought. Do homosexuals actually CHOOSE to be gay? Or are they born with their homosexuality (meaning it’s natural and they CANNOT change the way they feel)?
I REALLY think that they’re born like that and it’s beyond their control. Think about it. Why would a person CHOOSE to be homosexual when gays are utterly degraded and demoted in our society (ie. hate crimes, being ridiculed by the media, etc.)?
However, I think that your religious beliefs (if any) will effect your opinion on this matter greatly because, according to the bible, God creates everyone and condemns homosexuality… so, why would God make anyone homosexual to begin with? (I’m agnostic, so I don’t think that way).
Tell me what you think (and if there really is a TRUE answer).
You would be well suited to check out the “Ask The Gay Guy” threads by Esprix, one of our esteemed Dopers. I have too much of a headache to look for them, but do a search on his name and you’ll find links.
I am Gay. It’s not a choice, it’s who I am. Just as you (I presume) realised that you like girls in that way, so did I realise that I liked boys. It’s not your fault or your parents fault. Let us not try and dictate how we should love another person. Rather, let us celebrate what love is and what it means.
I was watching a show (I forget which show, but it was either on TLC or Discovery :)) that claimed that we have a cluster of cells at the base of our brains (big new here)
Now, the average male has a larger number of cells in this cluster than the average female. The average gay man’s cluster is closer to the size of a ‘normal’ straight female. Vise versa for a lesbian (= number of straigt male).
I got into a debate about this at work and wanted to see what you dopers thought. Do homosexuals actually CHOOSE to be gay? Or are they born with their homosexuality (meaning it’s natural and they CANNOT change the way they feel)?
I REALLY think that they’re born like that and it’s beyond their control. Think about it. Why would a person CHOOSE to be homosexual when gays are utterly degraded and demoted in our society (ie. hate crimes, being ridiculed by the media, etc.)?**
The problem here is that we simply don’t know enough about the various factors that contribute to a person’s personality to know what influences what.
Right now, the best guess is that a variety of factors contribute to causing a person to express homosexuality. There seems to be a genetic component along with some endocrine factors and possibly enviromental factors.
I’ve yet to met another homosexual person who actively, deliberately CHOOSE to be homosexual.
However, I think that your religious beliefs (if any) will effect your opinion on this matter greatly because, according to the bible, God creates everyone and condemns homosexuality… so, why would God make anyone homosexual to begin with? (I’m agnostic, so I don’t think that way).
Not everyone follows the Christian Bible, but yes, religious beliefs can affect one’s opinion about it. Some of us believe it’s downright assinine to think the Gods really care what two consenting adults do with each other in private.
Tell me what you think (and if there really is a TRUE answer).
Right now, we simply don’t know enough to make anything more than an informed guess.
Something that can really mess this whole thing up is the existence of bi-sexuals. It seems to me that in a manner of speaking that they are choosing to be gay when they engage in a homosexual act. What causes them to be the way they are? I once knew a woman that claimed to be lesbian, but I strongly suspect she was bi-sexual and choose to enter into relationships with women. Whatever, I strongly believe that the main reason for sexual preference is in the genes.
And what’s with this bi-curious thing that women have come up with and some guys think it so neat for their wife to be?
Has anyone ever heard a gay person claim that they chose it like a college major? I haven’t.
I HAVE heard so-called “reformed gays” claim that. All the ones I’ve heard say that, however, have gone though some kind of fundamentalist Christian anti-gay-bootcamp kind of reprogramming sessions. Then they become spokesmodels for anti-gay legislation. Makes me wonder.
Any gay parents around with adolescent or teenage kids? Is your sexuality, or theirs, an issue you’ve discussed? Are you concerned whether they are gay or straight?
It would seem to be a given that gay people do not make an informed choice in the matter. (Somebody else can dig out the famous sardonic quote on the subject…matt_mcl?) At least, every person I have read or spoken to claiming to be homosexual avers that it was something he or she discovered he or she was, not something they chose to be.
Granted that there remains a minority among theorists that believe that it is due to environmental conditioning in early childhood, this does not affect the fact. Typically, three-year-olds do not decide their future sexuality by informed reasoning about their treatment by parent figures.
And I would react strongly to the God-condemns-it scenario. Look for GD threads from early 2000 entitled “Christianity and Love” Parts I-III for extended discourse on this subject, which I will not repeat here.
There is a subtle difference between these two questions:
Do gays “choose” to be gay?
and
Is gayness genetic/hardwired before birth?
I think just about everybody agrees that the answer to 1) is no, of course not. Nobody can or does “choose” what will get them hot and bothered. Stuff just does. Whether it’s your same sex, dirty talk, high-heeled shoes, dirty feet, Blonde surfer gods, poop,Fat girls, skinny men, bestiality, body modification, or even kids. None of us has conscious control over how we physically and psychologically respond to these things as turn ons or turn offs. We only control how we behave .
However, the answer to 2) is more complicated and unresolved. In the case of homosexuality specifically, I think that there are gay people who really were just born that way. Maybe even most. But I think there are others whose life experiences shaped their sexual response in a way that it might otherwise not have gone, especially in the case of lesbians. And this is also true with other sexual proclivities. Stuff happens to us. It flips a sex switch. We can’t control it, we can only deal with it.
Something that can really mess this whole thing up is the existence of bi-sexuals. It seems to me that in a manner of speaking that they are choosing to be gay when they engage in a homosexual act.**
Wouldn’t it be as equally valid to say, “they choose to engage in a heterosexual act” You seem to imply that a “default” setting (if there even IS such a thing) is heterosexual.
Part of the problem is thinking that human sexuality expresses itself in only two modes; purely heterosexual and purely homosexual. Nature is rarely that neat. Kinsey found that humans express themselves over a wide range of tastes, ranging from completely heterosexual to completely homosexual. Inbetween, we can find as many variations as there are colors in the rainbow.
What causes them to be the way they are?
Very good question. As soon as we figure out a good answer, we’ll post it here.
I once knew a woman that claimed to be lesbian, but I strongly suspect she was bi-sexual and choose to enter into relationships with women.
Why do you strongly suspect this? What evidence do you have?
Whatever, I strongly believe that the main reason for sexual preference is in the genes.
I would just like to point out that nearly every gay person I’ve ever known, including myself, was raised as a heterosexual in a heterosexual society. For the majority, if not all of us, our first choice was to be heterosexual. That, after all, is what our society, friends & family considered normal, and the good & right thing.
A tragically huge number of gay people never come to a place of true self-acceptance, even after giving up on functioning in a heterosexual lifestyle. You can’t say we didn’t try, though! Many gays & lesbians have tried everything including kissing their elbows to become straight. We’ve been married, had kids, gone through religious brainwashing, etc. If it were simply a matter of choice, being gay would probably go out of style pretty damn quick.
I don’t think there’s ever going to be one “true” answer. I personally believe in a combination of genetic predisposition and environment. Basically, the same random things that make each person a unique individual. Just like artistic ability, not every child with the aptitude is raised in an environment where they’re able to develop that potential.
I also think that the whys don’t amount to a hill of beans. People who are gay are gay, regardless of how much they may be taught to hate themselves for that and try to change it. To me the real question isn’t why are people gay, but why we think it matters.
That’s the part that always gets me, too. Who gives a flying fuck? (Hardcore Christians and other religious types, mostly) But WHY? I mean, ok, so you are personally grossed out by same-sex-sex…but why hate it? Why block homosexual marriage? Why the hostility? WHY? Whatever happened to live and let live? I mean, mr. God Hates Fags…aside from the fact that he’s just a pathetic asshole in general, how can anyone be that caught up in what other people do in their own private lives? (Personally, I think that people who are filled with hate towards homosexuals are repressed homosexuals themselves 99% of the time…)
My belief is that it’s not a choice. It just happens, and you either accept it or you don’t.
I first realised I was gay when I was 13. I assumed I would be straight (don’t we all?), but the very first person I ever got the hots for turned out to be a man. It was like, “Hmmmm, I wasn’t expecting THIS.” True to my nature, I kept an open mind on the subject, but no matter what, guys did it for me and girls didn’t. By the age of 14, I knew for sure that I was 100% gay.
Compared to other gay guys I know, I think I had it easy. Whereas they had a hard time accepting things, and tried to straighten out, I just accepted it and moved on. They had relationships with women, to the point of having pregnancy scares and almost getting married. That ain’t going to be happening to me.
When all’s said and done, I have no problem whatsoever with the way things have turned out for me. If I were given the chance to be straight, by some magical means, I would turn it down without hesitation. I like the way I am, and wouldn’t change it for anything. Not once have I considered myself to have had a raw deal. Quite the opposite - if I wasn’t gay, there are many wonderful people in my life who I’d never have met, and events I would never have been part of.
As for bisexuals, the man I’m currently trying to snare classifies himself as one. For all intents and purposes, he may as well be gay, as he only ever goes for men. But if there was absolutely nothing else on offer, he is capable of having sex with a woman. So, while he realises he is 99.99% gay, he refers to himself as bisexual on this technicality.
But remember the old (tongue in cheek) quote about ‘if homosexuality was an inherited trait, wouldn’t the gay population just… die out?’
Actually, a (sort of) related question. I don’t ‘hate’ gays. Guys don’t turn me on, but (tongue back in cheek) ‘some of my best friends’ are gay
But even with my bestest of friends, I simply do not think there is anyway I could have sex with him. No way. Simply wouldn’t work. I would never be ‘up’ to the task. Having sex with a guy just … uggh. Not my cup of tea, sorry. And no, I do not think this is because ‘gays threaten my masculinity’. Just don’t find guys sexually attractive.
But do gays find sex with women equally unappealing? Do some guys get as ‘turned off’ at imaging sex with a women? (maybe because it threatens their gay-ness?)
I mean - I can’t know for sure, because I am not gay - but I imagine that if I were gay, it would be because I preferred sex with men, and did not want to have sex with women. As a straight guy, there is no way I would be able to have sex with a guy. As a gay guy, I imagine there would be no way I would be able to have sex with a girl.
So how do these gay genes get passed around?
My personal opinion has always been that everyone has ‘dormant’ likes and dislikes, etc.; and that in some either normally ‘dormant’ characteristics are stronger than normal, or various experiences/environmental conditions, etc., end up ‘triggering’ the alarm in one of these normally dormant factors. No sites, sorry - just my haphazard thinking
