How much “extra work” is involved in not asking the same question 3 times, then pouring a cup of coffee anyway despite getting 3 "No thank you"s? :dubious: Or putting water, from the faucet every kitchen has, into a glass instead of soda?
That post was obviously in reply to another person.
Secondly, so you dont drink a cup of coffee or soda.
I’m not seeing the calamity.
Otara
No, I’m talking about when I’m feeding myself and making no impositions or demands on anyone. I don’t know what it’s like where you are, but somehow the mere observation of my private preferences, even when I’m quietly minding my own business and not bothering anyone in the slightest, just sets off many Americans and makes them get all in my face about it.
I can only surmise that, for a lot of people, their only prior exposure to Vegetarians has been at university, and University Vegetarians have been rather known to [Stereotype Mode] tend towards the “Meat Is Murder! You’re A Bad Person For Liking Meat!” POV, combined with either “alternative” or possibly even [del]Communist![/del] “Socialist” ideas. [/Stereotype Mode]
Point is, You, Personally may be a nice, completely normal in all other respects person who happens not to eat meat for whatever. But I’d wager that most people, upon hearing you announce that you’re a vegetarian, immediately roll their eyes and think of the above stereotype and the negative connotations thereof. I’d argue people’s problem with the whole thing isn’t just about “Not eating meat”, it’s the other baggage that goes with it.
I do my best to disassociate from the pushers, but I’ve had alcohol pushed on me by coworkers (had to leave a company party once, as one of the pushers was untouchable) and relatives (the aunt who now swears she hasn’t drunk alcohol in her life; I helped my cousin get aunt undressed and into bed a few times).
There are also situations where it isn’t people pushing but there is a dearth of options. A consultant who once spent an eternity of 30 days in my small northern Spanish town was vegetarian (lacto-ovo, no fish). Going to actual restaurants, the cooks had no problem whipping up something for him, but all he had for lunch at the factory was his choice of pizza margarita or omelette baguette. Ow!
Along the same lines, in my current job we have to eat at the cafeteria. Good luck finding something which is appropriate for coeliacs, not drenched in sauce, and not overcooked. Oh yeah, the salad bar: that’s it.
I think it has to do with suppressed guilt on the part of the meat-eater. I believe that almost every person, deep down or somewhere within their conscience, realizes that cruelty is involved in the practice of eating meat. They don’t want to consciously contemplate this reality, and among other carnivores they don’t have to. The presence of a vegetarian threatens to make them think about uncomfortable questions. I say this as a pretty major meat-eater.
And why do some people see someone eat spinach lasagna and go “oh, I didn’t know you were a vegetarian!” 
And please allow me to help you bringing them outside for a beating when they continue with “but meat is so good!” (FTR, I’m an omnivore. That doesn’t mean I eat meat and/or fish in every meal, though.) It’s as if being in the presence of green food makes their brain shut off.
To Nava, since they’re eating meat and you are not they feel they have to justify themselves (for being a meat-eater perhaps, or maybe simply for eating more indulgently than you). This can take the form of them engaging in a bit of psychological projection and trying to make you defend yourself and explain why you are so “odd.” It’s the same process as when a meat-eater attacks a vegetarian with this concept of the “aggressive, crusading vegetarian” - a concept which is almost a complete myth. In the US there is overwhelming societal pressure to eat meat; there is practically no pressure to convert to vegetarianism.
It’s pretty easy to see what the situation in the world is.
Level 1. Some people believe being polite means offering to share everything. So they will ask if you would like some coffee, or meat, or lima beans. They have no harmful intent in doing that. And it’s not rude. Trust me, I know rude.
Level 2. Some people believe if you say no, you are just being shy, or insular, or possibly declining based on your form of ettiquete. So they might say, ‘Oh, go ahead’, or ‘It’s really good, are you sure’. They have no harmful intent in doing that. It’s not really rude. But it is annoying.
Level 3. Some people believe they know what you want better than you do. They might plead, try to make you feel guilty, pout to get you to try some. That’s rude, because in that case, I’m already annoyed and have no choice but to respond rudely to get them to stop. And they’ll think I’m the rude one.
Level 4. Some people will begin to belittle your reasons for declining their offer. They’ll tell you being a vegetarian is unhealthy. They’ll tell you to eat your lima beans or you’re not getting dessert. This is incredibly rude, but Dad would smack me on the head if I said what I wanted to. So I would put some lima beans in my mouth, and make the most hideously contorted face I could manage (actually there was no effort in doing that), and swallow them. And if they offer me lima beans now, I will make that face, and mention that I would rather eat something unbelievably disgusting instead of eating lima beans. I’ll make it so revolting, that they will not enjoy eating the lima beans they think are so good.
Special Seafood tier:
Level 1. If you don’t like seafood, and say so to someone who really likes seafood, all those seafood lovers will say ‘You just haven’t had good seafood’. That part is not rude. It’s a rule for seafood lovers. They have to do it. Just ignore it.
Level 2. If you add a reason why you don’t like seafood, like it tastes or smells fishy, and they begin to explain that seafood doesn’t taste fishy, and not all seafood is alike, I wasn’t intending to be rude. I’m really just thinking about eating all the different kinds of delicious seafood. I guess that is annoying. Sorry.
Level 3. If you say you just don’t like seafood again, I’ll mention that I don’t like lima beans to let you know I understand how you feel, then drop the subject. Others will persist in educating you about the joys of seafood. That’s rude. They are suggesting that you eat something that to you, is as revolting as lima beans. You should learn to make the face.
Level 4. If they start suggesting a dish at their favorite seafood restaurant, and suggesting you go there to try some really good seafood, they are being annoying and rude. They didn’t ask me to go, and I like seafood. Now I’m on your side. I’ll wink at you, and then say something revolting to the inconsiderate lout or loutess who didn’t offer to take me to their favorite seafood restaurant. If you have a sense of humor, you’ll laugh. If you have a sense of taste, you’ll be revolted too. Which serves you right, because I already let you know I don’t like lima beans.
I think that covers most cicrcumstances, except coffee. I don’t like coffee. I can’t understand why anybody likes coffee. It’s not like lima beans which everybody hates. Some people actually like drinking coffee. I haven’t found them to be that pushy though. They better not start though. People with lima beans and people who didn’t invite me out to a seafood restaurant have given me plenty of practice in saying revolting things.
I think everybody can relate to that.
"‘Meat is extremely bad for the digestive system,’ said Magrat. ‘If you could see inside your colon you’d be horrified.’
“‘I think I would,’ muttered Hwel.”
–Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters
I am so grateful for the folks I work with! We have a communal kitchen where people will put birthday cake and other goodies, so you can just help yourself if you want some. Most of them know that my diet plan doesn’t allow for much and they have never pushed it on me, they know at best I might have a small bit of something. Also, when I bring cakes to work (I love to bake, just can’t eat that much of it) they are all welcome to have some but I also bring some cookies and fruit for people who don’t like cake. I never force people to eat anything I bring in, if they don’t want it then that’s fair enough, I wouldn’t dream of hounding them round the office for turning it down.
I find most people are tolerant of food choices and food restrictions, but there’s always that one…
I do have an issue with people who insist that because I can’t eat something no one can eat it in my presence. Nonsense. Why should 30 people go without pizza because I can’t have it? You eat the pizza, I’ll have the mozzarella and garlic bread or a salad. Silly people.
There IS a problem with the ones who do the “just a taste won’t hurt you!” Yes, in fact, for some of the foods I’m allergic to just a taste will put me in the hospital. Yet they keep pushing. Usually they’ve stopped at “Will you pay my hospital bill when that triggers an allergic reaction?” but I’ve had two that would not stop, it’s like it became a personal crusade.
Don’t offer me something with “mystery ingredients”. If you can’t tell me what’s in it, I won’t eat it. Period. If it’s a secret family recipe you’ve sworn never to reveal then I just won’t try it. Period. No, we are NOT going to play the game where I tell you what I’m allergic to and you decide if it’s safe or not - the first time I wound up in the ER gasping for breath and losing consciousness was when I listed my allergies for someone holding a dinner party and they failed to grok that the couple tablespoons of KETCHUP they put into their 4 quarts of beef stew was sufficient quantity of TOMATO to almost kill me. After which they blamed me, apparently, for disrupting the evening. I’m sorry about puking all over the bathroom and the diarrhea, but that’s what happens when someone has a severe allergic reaction to food. And the distraught “I didn’t put tomatoes in the stew! It was just ketchup!” rang sort of hollow. It wasn’t malice, they just genuinely did not connect ketchup with tomatoes. People are clueless. I learned a painful lesson, and among other things I just do not eat any beef stew or soups outside my own home now. Or meatloaf. Or a few other things that all too often have just “a bit” of tomato.
But the worst of the worst, the absolute worst, are the people who try to sneak the forbidden items into a dish to “prove” that it’s all in your head (or whatever). Why does it matter so much to them? That I just do not understand. Then, when the catastrophic puking/wheezing/collapsing starts they act all butt-hurt, like YOU tricked THEM into causing the problem.
But, aside from the life-threatening health issues, getting into the realm of personal preferences - again, why is it so important? If someone doesn’t want to eat meat, what do I care? Particularly at a restaurant. No, seriously, ESPECIALLY at a restaurant, what do I care? If you don’t like lima beans just don’t eat them. No skin off my nose.
I think with me the biggest problem I face with preferences is calamari. Now, I like most seafood a great deal. Mmmmm… FISH! But I don’t care for calamari. No, I’m not allergic. Yes, I’ve had it many different ways, none of which I care for, and all of which have only calamari in common. I just don’t care to eat squid. Or anything with tentacles, really. Yes, yes, I’ve tried it - it’s not the spices or whatever, it’s the squid part I don’t care for. Yes, I eat sushi - but not sushi with tentacles. Seriously, people, I’m an adult, I’ve tried it, stop saying “just try it!”. Why squid appetizers seem to get trendy every so often I haven’t a clue. Enjoy eating your fish-flavored rubber bands.
Yep. And for the record, lobster, tuna or salmon steak tastes fishy to me as well. All seafood tastes fishy to me. I’ll cook it for my Wife, but I must admit the smell of it puts me off a bit.
Honestly, if you just called me a week or so before dinner and asked about that sort of thing, it probably wouldn’t occur to me to tell you I hate mushrooms. Partly because they just don’t turn up very often in food I’m used to being served so they’re not really on my food radar, and partly because I spent my entire childhood hearing “No, I’m not ordering a half and half pizza/fixing a separate pan of eggs/whatever; just pick them out if you don’t like them*.” And after you’ve already planned the menu, I have exactly 3 options.
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I can call and say, “Hey, you know that one ingredient that I can easily eat around? I don’t like it, so do something special just for me, would you?” This option would make me look and feel like an asshole, especially if you change the whole damn menu, because the implication to the other diners who were expecting steak and mushrooms is that I’m such a diva that I can’t bring myself to just enjoy my steak and not eat the damn mushrooms. Nooooo, instead I have to have the whole menu reworked around me and my special, special palate.
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I can keep my trap shut until you serve dinner and then make a production out of how I don’t like mushrooms, and don’t put any of those nasty things on my plate and ostentatiously scrape them off with a moue of disgust. In other words, I can be an even bigger asshole than Option 1.
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I can keep my trap shut about it the whole time, enjoying my steak and maintaining a pleasant conversation while quietly scraping the foul fungus over to the side. This option, of course, only works until the Food Police begin their interrogation as to why I’m not eating the mushrooms, but it’s the option typically recommended by people like Miss Manners.
Diosa, I think you’d get a lot less flak if you just said you didn’t care for the taste and describe it in the one word that every culinary authority uses to describe the seafood we should never, ever buy. It makes it hard for people to know without probing whether you don’t like it because you honestly don’t like it, or because you’ve only ever had the stuff that was half gone-over.
“I know you’re against abortion, dear, and active in anti-abortion causes. But I’ve taken the liberty of slipping abortifacients into your meal to induce miscarriage. You’ll see it’s no big deal and thank me later for opening your mind.”
It’s a Golden Rule thing, IMHO. Deep down they know THEY wouldn’t want to be eaten, even though they get a little thrill during Shark Week.
As I posted above, the second you say “NO” should be the end of it.
Food pushing and drink pushing are always in bad taste.
Some places clearly are offended at some kinds of special diets. We met relatives at a cozy little rural restaurant once. This place would have gone out of their way to make most guests comfortable; I could imagine the waitress driving home to get a booster seat, for example. But once they learned what we meant by “vegan” (apparently they’d never encountered the term before in the restaurant business) they refused to serve us anything – I asked if we could get plain boiled potatoes and they said “no.” Meanwhile they served potatoes all over the dining area.
Similarly, when we were in Quebec City, where they take their French roots very seriously, we asked one smoothie stand for a smoothie without the milk in it. They throw all these things into the blender right in front of you, and they could certainly have done so without milk. But she just gazed at us levelly for a moment and said “non.” Apparently even fast-food smoothies count as French cuisine, and we will not be adulterating French culture for you boorish Americans.
Based on the little country diners I grew up with, I’d guess any boiled potatoes they already had cooked had been boiled with some bacon or butter, or cooked in the drippings of a pot roast. Which would make them unfit to serve you if you’re wanting vegan food. Could they have boiled you up some special? If they had a free stove burner, raw potatoes suitable for boiling, and someone with some free time to scrub your taters, and you were willing to wait half an hour while they cooked them, yes. Based on my experience with this sort of place, the odds of them meeting all those criteria is very, very, very low–they tend to have rudimentary and fairly cramped kitchens, shoestring staffing, and buy their potatoes pre-cut for various types of frying.
There’s no reason they couldn’t have gotten you a salad with some Italian dressing or something, though. That’s just nuts.
One thing though (not directed at you, since I agree with your post, but reading it reminded me of a frustrating/puzzling experience with someone I once had), about the tricky customs of being presented some food you don’t like or is harmful to you:
You are my guest and I’m preparing something to eat in front of you, that we both know you’re gonna eat some of it since it’s for dinner. I explain to you which ingredients I’m gonna use, then I ask you if you are really ok with me using this particular ingredient, that I can totally not use it, that it’s not in the usual recipe, and you are like “ok, go ahead!” …I’m going to be confused as heck if you eat around that particular ingredient. (it was raisins, not something esoteric in taste)
(I won’t say a word to your face though.)