Sorry, but every time I see this thread I think of this song: - YouTube
We have a septic system and have no problem whatsoever using toilet paper.
HOW does it save water? Even if you are not flushing toilet paper, you are still flushing the human waste. I do not flush every time I pee, but no way am I going to let shit stay anywhere in my bathroom–in the toilet or on toilet paper in thr wastebasket. Urine is sterile; feces is not.
If it’s yellow, let it mellow.
If it’s brown, flush it down.
People throw away millions of shit filled diapers and baggies of dog crap every day. Maybe some cities require their citizens to take these to the nearest medical waste incinerator, but I have never heard of it.
Flushing raw sewage directly into rivers or the ocean is NOT green at all; that’s what sewage plants are for.
I’m not sure why it would save water, but in any case that’s not an issue in Costa Rica, where they get 10-20 feet of water/year, and have no aerators on the taps. When I was shaving (in the same bathroom as the little basket), there was no sink plug, so I had to let the water run down the drain as I shave, and with no aerator, a lot of water went down.
When I moved into my previous house and the garbage guy dropped off the trash can, I said “oh good I have a trash can full of diapers to get out of the house.” He said that actually you’re supposed to dump the poop into the toilet before throwing them away. Where I live, it is illegal to put poop in the landfill, but of course no one knows or cares when it comes to diapers and dogs.
I still think it’s because (maybe until recently in some places) toilet paper was not up to our quick-decay fall-apart North American standards. Plain old newspaper, the Sears catalog and other outhouse regulars are definitely NOT a good idea to flush. It takes a pretty fancy formulation of paper to ensure it will do the paperwork (“No breakthroughs”, as the recent commercial says) without being so hard it can plug the drain or sewers. (Use enough regular TP and you can STILL plug the toilet).
And… a poverty-stricken third world country, anyone outside the fancy hotels is not likely to budget high on the list for TP when last night’s special edition is there for the taking.
And of course, how new are those plastic liners in less developed countries? Anyone here that has never accidentally spilled a bag full of garbage? Flushing it all and forget is a lot more sanitary, and a standard flush that takes down the full load will handle the paperwork without needing more water.
Um, I know. You misunderstood. Having TP in there as well makes it worse.
Just an aside, you may not be aware of this but most of the countries being discussed are part of North America. In Mexico, at least, people can buy their toilet paper in Wallmart and Sam’s, etc. They are the same brands and varieties as the US and Canada which is what I’m assuming you are referring to by North American Standards.
As noted in my earlier post - despite the existence of paper meant to decompose quickly for septic tank use, micro fibers of paper still slowly accumulate in the drains and, over time clog up the drain system. Without going into a lengthy discussion of the mechanics of septic tanks, heavy things sink and light things float. The middle of the tank is the water that is presumed to be clean enough to filter and drain. The tiny paper fibers don’t all sink or float, some of them are just right to make their way immediately through the system and out to the filtration and drainage portion of the system. That part of the system isn’t as rich in bacteria as the sludge tank and the paper doesn’t continue to decompose as quickly. Little by little, it builds up in the cleaner environment of the drains and clogs them. This requires expensive repairs and flushing/pumping, etc. of the tank. That is, if the owner even knows about it. A large number of them that are in this condition may just sit undiscovered, leaking the drainage into the wrong area of ground because the drain is clogged with paper.
There may be some septic tank designs and/or paper technology that isn’t in use widely yet, but nevertheless such is the situation with the millions that are already installed in the regions discussed. So flushing the paper is bad for the environment.
That’s kind of the point. A trash bag full of spoiled foods, dog and cat excrement, used tampons, etc. really isn’t being taken down too many notches in the gross factor by adding some used toilet paper to the mix. The key is being sanitary about the bags, the disposal, hand washing, etc. just like is already the case with handling any other waste.
Flush it all and forget it isn’t necessarily any more sanitary - it just moves the waste somewhere else other than your bathroom conveniently. When there are repercussions for those living near where it winds up, convenience in your bathroom isn’t as important as what is considered sanitary at the other end of the drain pipe.
Not BS, marketing. Many people won’t accept or understand “the sewers here can’t handle TP” but, since Costa Rica specifically markets itself for “green tourism”, it gets a lot of the kind of people who’ll walk on their hands if told it’s green.
Each little plastic bag gets tied up. Whether they get put into another bag for ease of carriage or not depends on the location, personal preference of the cleaner, etc.
The bags go to the local dump, it’s not more of a biohazard than the half-eaten food, goober-filled paper hankies, etc.
Without paper, it’s feasible to use a smaller flush volume, which can be accomplished by using a lower-flow toilet or just adjusting the float valve to accomplish the same thing.
Which is why I used the qualifier “many places” rather than “all places”.
I am well aware of geography, although it’s been decades since I was in Mexico. My point was that in poorer countries, the people who can barely afford to eat, who are not middle class (Maybe Mexico is getting beyond that point) would normally not spend thier money on luxuries like real toilet paper. Plus, I bet as a proportion of income, toilet paper in lower mibdle class Mexico is a lot cheaper today than 20 or 40 years ago.
When I was in Mexico in the 1960’s I don’ remember any such thing - but we stayed in modern hotels. OTOH, I encountered this in China last year - everywhere except the modern, western-oriented(sorry) hotels, McDonalds, and other “less traditional” locations.
So when these people first moved from the dirt-floor vllages to almost-slum hi-rises, they would not use melt-in-water store-bought real toilet paper, but whatever was at hand. The would very quickly learn (or their landlords would teach them) not to flush that stuff. (My wife’s grandmother had to learn the hard way not to try and flush paper towels. It seems to me the formulation for toilet paper has to be pretty specific for it to not clog. )
Now that those countries have real, quality, flushable toilet paper, nobody’s broken the habit; or maybe there are still people who don’t buy real toilet paper.
I think that even a low-volume toilet with the flush volume to handle most loads will easily handle the paperwork if it is real toilet paper. Whenever I have to do a repeat flush with the new low-volume toilets, it’s not because of the paper.