What some well informed Dopers had to say about drinking a bottle of wine a day.
What were we talking about again?.. oh, yes - abs/fitness.
I have found no studies comparing benefits/dangers of a dedicated fitness routine to drinking a bottle of wine a day. Strange, that. :rolleyes:
Perhaps so, I just checked the CDC web site and, at least according to the CDC, a standard glass of wine is 5 ounces which gives 5 glass of wine to the bottle instead of 4.
But anyway, it doesn’t change my underlying point, which is that his standards for when it is reasonable to be concerned about a relative’s behavior – if only to the point of asking other people if that behavior is unhealthy – are ridiculous.
If a relative is drinking 20 ounces of wine a night, it’s completely reasonable to be concerned enough to ask other people if this is unhealthy behavior.
Also, I am extremely skeptical that the additional risk from drinking 20 ounces of wine a night is known to be “infinitesimal.” But I await the proof I requested.
That linked thread is telling though.
Despite some initial WAGs the people in the thread with medical knowledge were all in agreement “that a bottle of wine consumed daily puts you at more than a ‘negligible’ risk …” (KG) “at significant risk” (QtM)
No one thought the op was nuts or out of line for asking if there should be concern.
The op was asking on his own behalf; would it be inappropriate to want to find out the answer on behalf of your sister, brother, son, daughter, or spouse? If someone you loved was doing that would you say nothing and not even ask if it was possibly harmful unless they were driving drunk or missing work?
Upon review of this thread in the same manner that I looked at that linked thread I must note that my first impression was incorrect. This thread as well had those with established fitness knowledge all expressing that there could be some reason concern depending on the specifics.
runner pat pointing out
and that the person already was likely already at 10% BF.
Ambi pointing out that
Honey Badger also broached some concern based on how he himself
It actually was being recognized that the question of where (if anywhere) does fat loss cross a line and become unhealthy (and implied, does a desire to hit an extreme level of fat loss signal some risk that should imply some potential concern?) was not unreasonable to ask. Some of the hostile responses, especially the ones that had made shit up, had me underappreciating that.
Here’s where you said exactly that thing.
Ok. Please apologize to me now. Thank you.
No, it’s two different things.
For one thing, “should not be worrying so much about X” is different from “shouldn’t be concerned about X”
For another, I clearly was speculating about a possible position and not necessarily adopting that position as my own.
No, you apologize to me for misstating my position. This is the last time I will ask you.
How about the guys who have nicely visible abs at 15%? They okay, healthwise? Assuming they haven’t pursued the fitness goal out of a sense of vanity but did the work solely for the sake of longevity, of course. I don’t want to link to any not safe for work images, but a search for “15% body fat male” reveals a nice stack of visible abs for some men of medium to large builds.
Here’s a guide to methods of BF testing and a pictorial guide to appearance.
Bill Reynolds has been involved in the bodybuilding sport for several decades as an author and magazine editor.
Misstating your position by directly quoting you? Think I’ll go work on my six pack abs.
You must be my first wife. Jennifer is that you?
No, misstating my position by pretending I said something different from what I actually said.
Among other things, there is a difference between saying “He should not worry so much about X” and “He should not be concerned about X” The first implies that some level of concern is okay. The second implies that no level of concern is okay.
You confused the two, and when I called you on it, you doubled down and asserted that they were “exactly” the same.
When I pointed it out to you, you strawmanned me again by pretending that when I referred to your having misstated my position, I was referring to your quote and not your misstatement.
I imagine your ex-wife would confirm that you take great pleasure in attacking strawmen and in refusing to understand why you are wrong in doing so. As for me, I have no interest in such a discussion.
This exchange is concluded.
Goodbye.
Call me crazy, but I find fat people sexy and six-pack abs ugly. I like overweight women, like BMI 30 overweight. 
)
Here’s another thing that’s infinitesimal - the odds of any proof or logic causing you to change the position you’ve taken. So why play the cite game? What’s happened here is you’ve been called out for being a busybody and you’re trying to rationalize it - as such people often do - as concern for others; you meddle because you <sob> care <sob> so much. Is that so wrong? <whaaaaah!>
Here’a s thought experiment for you, before you launch your whole “I said ‘Good Day to you!’ I said ‘Good Day!!’” routine. Your justification for concern is the increased risk you feel your relative might be exposing himself to in his pursuit of visible abs (despite the fact it would make for the coolest tombstone ever!). A risk that only Dseid felt was worth entertaining at all, and recently stated only as playing devil’s advocate. If there is a risk, it’s an itty-bitty teeny-weeny baby one.
Compare that to the risk your relative faces every time he drives? The number of 40-something men dying from weight-loss related complications isn’t a flea on the ass of the number of men dying on the roads every year (9,400 men aged 35-54 last year) It’s our most common, potentially fatal activity. Driving increases the risk of death to your loved one much more than 4 glasses of wine, unless they combine the two activities. Is it reasonable to be less concerned about a more commonly injurious activity they participate in more often than playing “Trivial Pursuit - The Diet and Weight Loss Edition” because they want to lose a few pounds?
This thread is driven for concern about your relative about as much as Michael Jackson’s surgeries were driven by a desire to look black. Start looking at the man in the mirror, brazil84. Someone needs to change their ways.
First, what, according to you, is the position I have taken?
Second, you are wrong. I stated that I was extremely skeptical that the additional risk from 4 drinks a day is “infinitesimal.” However, I am open to seeing proof of this fact.
Because I feel bound to give you a chance to back up your claim.
You claim that the risk from drinking 4 drinks a day is “infinitesimal.” And you claim, in effect, that it’s so obvious that it is unreasonable to even ask about it.
So let’s see your proof.
That’s a ridiculous comparison since lifestyle-related health problems take years to catch up with you. Besides which, I would be concerned if a relative took up driving habits which increased his level of risk on the road.
i.e. you are unable to defend your ridiculous position so you prefer to change the subject by attacking my motivations. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that my motivations are bad.
Now please show me your proof that the additional risk from 4 drinks a day is “infinitesimal.” In other words, put up or shut up.
Also, please state what my position is, according to you.
TIA.
And also to shine a spotlight on a dubious claim.
And kablooie goes the irony meter.
But I want to thank you for reminding us all that we should be on the lookout for people who have unhealthy obsessions.
LMAO. Is that number 5 in one thread alone? I’ve lost track.
The OP must be fun at parties. If he’s ever invited.
I know we go tend to go down some questionable paths in discussions like this with all kinds of false equivalencies created and repeated, just for stupid fun of it all. But alcohol abuse = exercise abuse has to be one of the dumbest ones yet. How does one even begin to equate a bottle of wine to some amount of exercise and then try to claim A therefore B? It’s apples and orangutans.
Let me go on record that an otherwise healthy middle aged man should be able to achieve a low, but still healthy BF% and even achieve a visible abs without causing a national health crisis and upsetting his busy body relatives.
Furthermore, I’ll go out on limb to state, the same man drinking a bottle of wine a day would risk significant harm to his health. I trust noone disagrees with that. So why we’re even discussing the inherent health risks of one compared to the other is fucking absurd. :smack:
The comparison to alcohol is somewhat relevant as an example. Asking if it’s healthy to have six-pack abs is like asking if it’s okay to have wine dinner. It a general sense it’s fine, but there’s always that extreme case which is a problem. It’s fine to have a glass of wine with dinner, but a bottle or two is a sign of a problem. It’s fine to have a goal of six-pack abs, but a small number of people can get obsessive about exercise.
Somehow the discussion of the extreme case got misunderstood as being applied to the person in the OP. There is nothing to worry about for that guy right now. It’s fine for him to work towards that goal. But you never know if he’s one of the few who will become exercise obsessed. Encourage him, but just be aware that exercise, like anything, can be taken to unhealthy extremes. It doesn’t mean that he’ll take it to extremes, but it does mean that nothing is 100% healthy in all cases.
Even if it’s not an extreme case, it’s reasonable to ask if chronic moderate alcohol consumption is likely to have an effect on the person’s health.
For example, I just found this.
Of course, folks like epbrown01 would presumably say that one drink a day is so obviously healthy that it’s absurd to even ask whether it is less healthy than abstaining. :rolleyes:
And yet, as in the case with body fat, you seem to cherry pick one item while ignoring the others. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/
Note the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption include lowering the risk of “heart attack, ischemic (clot-caused) stroke, peripheral vascular disease, sudden cardiac death, and death from all cardiovascular causes” as well as gallstones and type 2 diabetes. So, you’d be an idiot to not drink in moderation, right?
It is pretty difficult to look at a single health related issue in isolation. Looking at the big picture you’ll see that we all make all sorts of choices in our lives with some benefits and some risks. I’m all for being informed but you can’t expect people will make the same decisions as you would when presented with the same information. The benefits of being in shape, feeling better, looking better, etc may out weigh some slight long term health risks in the mix with many short and long term health benefits.
Your relative seems to making good choices with positive results. Unless he starts taking direct actions that are outside the realm of normal and accepted practice I see no benefit of you getting involved. And in case it’s not clear, a 40+ man who wants to have visible abs is well within the realm of normal.