Incidentally, are these swipe-and-PIN (or chip-and-PIN) systems, or do you really just swipe the card and put it back in your wallet? Because just swiping the card with no attempt to verify identification seems, shall we say, open to abuse…
Usually, they have a stylus that’s used to capture a signature. But some places don’t even require a signature for small amounts.
I think flodnak was asking if you have to enter a PIN number (usually four digits) when swiping your credit/debit card. In the UK and Australia, that’s how it works. In fact, most places I can’t sign to pay for things anymore (I recently found this out when I forgot my PIN number for my newest credit card).
So is it really just a case of swiping - no other form of ID?
Yes, in several (actually many) stores in the US, I simply swipe the credit card myself, sign on the screen using the provided stylus and am given a receipt and my merchandise. And below a threshold amount, even the signature is not needed. For example, a signature was not needed for purchases of less than ten dollars at fast food restaurants in airports. My guess is that the increase in efficiency is worth the occasional problem.
In the US, most consumers can’t tell the difference between ATM and CC usage, because many ATM cards also have a CC linked, and many CC cards also have an ATM linked. I’d like to think SD readers are more aware and discriminating 
When using a Debit/ATM card, we enter a PIN number. If the card is a combo Debit/ATM + CC, and they ask you to enter a PIN, they are running it as an ATM. If they ask you to sign something (physical paper, digital pad) or ask to see the card or ID, they are running it as a CC.
This is the way the vast majority of the merchant account point-of-sale systems work in the U.S. You can certainly find individual merchants who do things different. Some places still run a “carbon” of your card (a roller machine that makes a carbon imprint copy of the face of your card). While I can see having that as a backup for when your POS is down, it seems silly in this day and age (in a major city with easy phone, cell, and Internet connectivity, at least) to not use a modern system to protect yourself (verify it’s a good card before you let the customer walk away with product).
Now, when the merchant runs it as an ATM, chances are they are going to charge you something. In the Los Angeles and Ventura areas, it’s often $0.35, $0.50, or $0.65, though I’ve seen other charges around those amounts, and occasionally it’s free to use it. It depends on the merchant and the context. As has been stated on many other threads, if the average charges are high ($50 or much more) they can easily absorb the ATM charges and won’t bother you with them. If it’s a convenience store and they get $0.50 or $5.00 charges all the time, hell yes they will stick that to you.
If it’s a CC, they aren’t allowed to do those things. They get charged amounts from their merchant account for accepting those, and they’d “like” to stick those charges to you, but most account agreements don’t let them.
So, when you’re being charged for the transaction payment method, watch how they verify your identity. If you’re punching a PIN, chances are it’s ATM. If you sign, or they ask to see the card, or they ask to see ID, chances are it’s CC.
In San Francisco (I was there over New Year’s this year, so this is recent!) it’s tough to find a non-major chain that accepts CC. McDonald’s and Burger King and other major chains do, but we literally looked in windows and walked into 5 or 6 restaurants in a row on a street (mainly out of curiosity) and couldn’t find a single non-major chain store that accepted CC. And they were all bustling with business - apparently there’s enough foot traffic willing to spend cash in SF that the merchants feel no need to accept additional forms of payment to compete with the major players. Interesting culture there.
The carbon rollers really are getting rare. These days, at, say, a Renaissance Faire, the usual choice seems to be between a cell-based Internet connection and no credit cards at all; rollers just aren’t in the game. I did see one somewhere in the last couple of years, though, although I don’t recall where.
Most customer-swipe systems have the option to select whether you use credit or debit. And I’ve had values as large as $25 not require a signature while using Credit. YMMV.
In other countries, they have gone to PIN systems with credit cards, too. The reason is that theft is greatly aided by not having any verification of the owner. Apparently convenience outweighs theft losses in the U.S.
I went back to the frozen yogurt place yesterday that posts a $5 minimum for transactions.
They charge by weight, so I don’t know how much my yogurt will cost until they weigh it.
Yesterday it came to $4.99, and the guy didn’t bat an eye as he swiped my card. I was wondering whether or not he’d say “$5.00 minimum,” and if I would throw on one extra chocolate sprinkle to bring it up to $5.00, or just walk out. He swiped. Good choice.
Blindingly simple answer to big problem!
p.s. That means GREAT idea, if my remark needs clarification.
Your telling me. Liquor store won’t even let me buy my booze without it being signed. “See ID” isn’t enough. They require a whole signature. (I have See ID on a little label on the back though).
At the Post Office yesterday, they asked for ID even though the pic is on the back of my American Express. I said it’s on the back, he said he needs ID. He wouldn’t even flip it to see if the picture was the same, it was like he did NOT want to see it.
Is a check card a type of debit card that does not require a PIN or signature? I’m a little unclear on US debit cards; people seem to make a distinction between check cards and debit cards. I thought most US debit cards carried Visa/MC logos and required signatures.
I signed up for Verified by Visa and used a different password.
[sub]Which I don’t remember.[/sub]
Please, please sign your card. Otherwise someone will end up getting shafted and that someone is probably me, the girl on the registers.
I know that I’m not supposed to accept cards that say “Please check ID” because I know the bank doesn’t consider them valid. I know if I put one of those cards through and later someone challenges the authorisation on that card, I’m going to get in trouble for allowing it through - anything from being reprimanded to possibly losing my job. However, I also know management is not going to have my back on this issue. If I refuse to put it through and have to page a manager to make them look at the card, they’re just going to tell me to put it through. If there’s a problem later they may remember later that I made them check and that will get me out of trouble, but it’s also going to get me flagged as being useless and unable to do simple things without a manager looking over my shoulder. Not only that, but it’s going to piss the customer off, being made to wait for a manager to come down to say “Yep, put it through”, and the customers are going to resent me for being “picky”.[sup]1[/sup]
If you aren’t prepared to accept the terms the bank sets on their cards, then don’t sign up with them in the first place. Do not drag innocent third parties (ie: me, and the store I work for) into your beef with the bank by demanding we accept a form of payment that you have technically rendered invalid, or by refusing to let us check your signature at all.[sup]2[/sup]
[sup]1[/sup] I stopped one guy from using his wife’s card with a PIN, and then the duty manager came up and ok’d it. Through the rest of the transaction the customer kept looking at me like I was a moron, but the only person authorised to use the card is the person named on the card. He said “But I know the PIN!”… yeah, well so what? That doesn’t make you authorised and would be no protection for us if she came in ranting later that she broke up with the bastard this morning and how dare we let a card that says MRS Kate Smith be used by a man who clearly wasn’t either a Mrs or a Kate. According to store policy, we are supposed to try to make sure the gender of the person using the card matches what’s on the card.
[sup]2[/sup]One lady took a stand with one of my co-workers the other day, refusing to let her check the signature saying “You aren’t a qualified signature checker”. Lady, we may not have degrees in detecting forgery but we are all that stands between you and an opportunistic thief running amok with your credit card. I know for a fact that one of our employees ended a spending spree on a stolen card when he questioned the signature and the thief run off without it, and I know that same thief had already put the card through half a dozen other locations that morning that didn’t check the signature and let him get away with it. I know this because the customer makes a point to mention it every time he comes to the store because he’s still so grateful that we did what we’re supposed to do. If you aren’t prepared to let us do our job and check your signature then don’t come crying to us when someone manages to clean you out signing “Donald Duck” on the receipts.
I don’t suppose this happens very often, but are stolen cards ever recovered? If I were Visa or Amex, it would be in my rules that if a card is stolen and used fraudulently, and it has been signed by the thief in a blank signature block left unsigned by the rightful user, the rightful user pays.
At my previous job, we used to knock back purchases over about $500 if the card was signed “See ID”, and on purchases between $200-$500 it was a judgement call if we accepted it.
In most cases it was American tourists with “See ID” on their cards. We had a lot of trouble explaining to them that unless their name was “See ID” or they signed everything- including their driver’s licence- “See ID” then the card wasn’t valid and if there was a problem with the purchase (ie they disputed it later) we’d be the ones out of pocket. Usually we let the sale through if their ID matched up OK, but if their ID looked nothing like them (and that happened surprisingly often) then no sale, sorry, next time sign your credit card like it says on the back- notice where it says CARD NOT VALID UNLESS SIGNED?
People never remember the poor schlub on the front lines. I remember reading, years ago, a letter to “Dear Abby” or some such from a train engineer, explaining the hell he and people like him go through whenever someone decides to pull an Anna Karenina.