Is man a meat-eater or a vegetarian by nature?

Here is some recent research on the impact of changing diet on human jaw structure. The main thrust is that the switch to sedentary agricultural communities with predominantly plant-based diets resulted in the smaller jaws and therefore crooked teeth, compared to the longer jaws of hunter-gatherers. It is not known whether this is an evolutionary change or a developmental change, but it does indicate that the human jaw structure reflects a diet including meat.

“Thus hunter-gatherers tended to have longer (more jutting) and narrower lower jaws, whereas those of farmers were relatively shorter and wider. But the form of the crania did not show this correlation, with one exception: The shape of the palate of the upper jaw, which is closely associated with the lower jaw and involved in chewing, also varied to some degree between farmers and hunter-gatherers.”

[Author Noreen von Cramon-Taubadel] concludes that the transition to farming—which involved the domestication of plants and animals, a major increase in food processing, and thus consumption of easier to chew food altered the shape of the human jaw, making it shorter and less robust. And this shortening of the jaw, she suggests, led to greater crowding of the teeth and the orthodontist bills that plague many modern families.

From news article:
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/11/crooked-teeth-blame-early-farmer.html

Source:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/49/19546
Global human mandibular variation reflects differences in agricultural and hunter-gatherer subsistence strategies

Noreen von Cramon-Taubadel, Department of Anthropology, School of Anthropology and Conservation, University of Kent, Canterbury CT2 7NR, United Kingdom

Abstract

Variation in the masticatory behavior of hunter-gatherer and agricultural populations is hypothesized to be one of the major forces affecting the form of the human mandible. However, this has yet to be analyzed at a global level. Here, the relationship between global mandibular shape variation and subsistence economy is tested, while controlling for the potentially confounding effects of shared population history, geography, and climate. The results demonstrate that the mandible, in contrast to the cranium, significantly reflects subsistence strategy rather than neutral genetic patterns, with hunter-gatherers having consistently longer and narrower mandibles than agriculturalists. These results support notions that a decrease in masticatory stress among agriculturalists causes the mandible to grow and develop differently. This developmental argument also explains why there is often a mismatch between the size of the lower face and the dentition, which, in turn, leads to increased prevalence of dental crowding and malocclusions in modern postindustrial populations. Therefore, these results have important implications for our understanding of human masticatory adaptation.
On the “other primates eat meat” issue, video evidence has shown that chimpanzees groups will deliberately track and attack other chimpanzee groups for territory- and will eat those that they kill.

Article.

The problem with deriving an “ought” from the facts.

Lacking the ability to digest cellulose and the essential amino acid situation is enough to convince me we’re omnivores.

Omnivores.

The problem with ‘The problem with deriving an “ought” from the facts.’ is that it is an incomplete sentence with aught indicating of the agent deriving the oughting.

It’s a fragment, the untyped ellipsis is left up to the reader to decipher (“here is the problem…”).

In this case it could go either way: whether we naturally eat meat or naturally don’t is independent of whether we should eat meat or shouldn’t.

They are different questions, but “independent” is far too strong a word.

Well, if we couldn’t survive without meat it would be a totally different question. But saying that we have the propensity for it is no more relevant to our approach to matters than to say that humans have a propensity for rape or murder.

in our celiac household, @ least 1 with a known autoimmune disorder, we received nutritional advisement, during which it was STRESSED that animal proteins in some form needed 2 b consumed, especially 4 the endocrine system 2 adequately function, 4 the 1 of us…the original vegetarian question vs carnivore, i m 2 understand that genetically we r designed as omnivores, which mr adams supported in his research…overdoing meat, or carbs/starch or even sugars from fruits is unhealthy…& specifically not cited in studies alluded 2 in article, about vegetarians & heart disease: gluten ingestion as a consideration as well as other factors which contribute 2 leaky gut syndromes…which gluten certainly may & often does, causing nutrient deficits & rel8d health issues, which becoming a vegetarian, alone does not begin 2 touch on…not everything was included in that cited study & this is a major wellness component often overlooked, we found out 1st hand! & childbearing age /natural selection remarks in original article, as 2 that, nutrient deficits lead 2 LACK of fertility IN childbearing age persons, male & female, as well as numerous health issues…which do NOT merely strike the aged, its just that over time, such things accumul8 & grow ever worse.

I suggest this site, 2 start:

this does not merely apply 2 others if u test negative on tests 4 celiac, as u may b false negative 4 several reasons & also can b sensitive without a pos result & even have no digestive symptoms but still have nutrient deficits. U can b eating ‘healthy’ & taking vitamins, but still have inability 2 absorb, them…& carbonated beverages, not helpful either…

OK, this forum confuses me…i tried 2 edit post 2 ad somthing i 4get, it lets me edit, but then says a pop up that i took 2 long so now must email admin, via separate email…how does this work??

I m posting edited version here:

in our celiac household, @ least 1 with a known autoimmune disorder, we received nutritional advisement, during which it was STRESSED that animal proteins in some form needed 2 b consumed, especially 4 the endocrine system 2 adequately function, 4 the 1 of us…the original vegetarian question vs carnivore, i m 2 understand that genetically we r designed as omnivores, which mr adams supported in his research…overdoing meat, or carbs/starch or even sugars from fruits is unhealthy…& specifically not cited in studies alluded 2 in article, about vegetarians & heart disease: gluten ingestion as a consideration as well as other factors which contribute 2 leaky gut syndromes…which gluten certainly may & often does, causing nutrient deficits & rel8d health issues, which becoming a vegetarian, alone does not begin 2 touch on…not everything was included in that cited study & this is a major wellness component often overlooked, we found out 1st hand! & childbearing age /natural selection remarks in original article, as 2 that, nutrient deficits lead 2 LACK of fertility IN childbearing age persons, male & female, as well as numerous health issues…which do NOT merely strike the aged, its just that over time, such things accumul8 & grow ever worse.

I suggest this site, 2 start:

this does not merely apply 2 others if u test negative on tests 4 celiac, as u may b false negative 4 several reasons & also can b sensitive without a pos result & even have no digestive symptoms but still have nutrient deficits. U can b eating ‘healthy’ & taking vitamins, but still have inability 2 absorb, them…& carbonated beverages, not helpful either…

being asked y i needed 2 edit post caused me 2 4get edit!

i wish we were told of this yrs ago.

because we eat a semi vege diet does not mean we morally or ethically support killing animals, inhumane treatment, but acknowledge we would b compromised without certain animal products. I have greatly reduced th amt of muscle derived animal protein from my diet due 2 such considerations…eggs & goats milk r considerations, altho gluten intolerance often goes with other enteropathies like cows milk & causes lactose intolerance…so then, goats milk can even b an issue. i m sharing this not 2 critique posts, or article but 2 relay this info so it may benefit others…

& gluten itself = a neurotoxin.
…& soy is a phyto-estrogen, which behaves like a hormone in human systems…its not intended as a central protein source.

THANK u 4 this amazing forum.

  • You have 5 minutes to edit a message that you have posted. Depending on how you time it you could end up having pushed the edit button and made your changes only to be over your 5 minute limit when you try to post it. You’ve seen what happens then.

  • 2 edit? 4get? 2 long? You aren’t sending texts to someone on a cell phone!

from Beavis and Butt-Head…
Yeah. Guys like this, like, they always come into Burger World telling you why meat’s bad for you, and stuff. But it’s like, I always tell 'em, “If meat’s bad for you, then how come it’s food?”

I m limited in typing; & 2 elabor8 further takes more typing than worth it.

as 2 original post, concerning diet;
fish, such as salmon was a reccomended addition. Technically this along with eggs & limited dairy, makes my spouse NOT actually, vegetarian. He refrains from animal organs, muscle, etc unless fish is included…which serves as important source of selenium b12, protein…& prob also, unfortunately, mercury…

If u r telling me this is the audience i m reaching with that message…i will not say i m surprised but i will say sad…

The custom on this forum is to type in plain English. This also helps the many forum members for whom English is a second language and for whom your “shorthand” will be somewhere between confusing and totally unintelligible.

You can, of course, continue to type as you wish, however, you will also continually get comments, some of them negative, if you continue to do so.

Please could you provide a proper citation supporting this assertion?

i m in chronic pain, its quik 4 me 2 type this way, tho everything is painful, i really ought not b posting, @ all…& yes, u r 100% correct, i catch hell 4 it routinely…

& as 4 prior post, i was not bashing beavis & butthead, honestly…nevermind…

please go here:

the author, i have heard speak on this scientific compendium on gluten & am told, its all in the book…

(full name: recognizing celiac disease, signs symptoms, associated disorders & complications, by cleo libonati, rn bsn…& its not just about celiac)!!

the book has been picked up by university medical programs & is shifting the paradigm on dietary needs…hardly new info, but a health innovation…

I will also ad, this is not an advertisement, i did not write this, i m merely passing on pertinent info.

to be more concise, the following is cited from www.recognizingceliacdisease.com:

"
What YOU will find inside Recognizing Celiac Disease…

Explains GLUTEN, GLUTEN sources in food, how GLUTEN triggers harmful reactions in your body and the difference between CELIAC DISEASE and GLUTEN SENSITIVITY.

Gives you a concise yet comprehensive overview of celiac disease including background, prevalence, pathophysiology (how it alters your normal body processes), symptoms, diagnosis, treatment and prognosis. Also includes which vitamins/minerals your doctor needs to test you for at diagnosis.

Describes the human digestive process and how GLUTEN disrupts both organ structure and function.

Teaches you how to begin and maintain the GLUTEN-FREE DIET.

Lists foods and ingredients commonly allowed and not allowed on a GLUTEN-FREE DIET.

Contains charts that detail the nutrient deficiencies GLUTEN causes, symptoms, research study findings & case reports, response to GLUTEN-FREE DIET, and lists of foods with the highest sources of each nutrient so you can build a diet that meets your individual needs.

Contains charts of over 300 health problems caused by GLUTEN, symptoms, prevalence, description, causes including nutritional deficiencies and whether they respond to the GLUTEN-FREE DIET. "