Is Marijuana Medicine?

[Martin_Hyde]

@aruvqan

Over on grasscity on the medical portion of the boards people discuss the balance in specifically cross breeding sativa and indica for specific effects for their particular problem [and adding in a dollop of the non drug hemp for the speed of growth] just like people on medical boards discuss what they found effective for their conditions using ‘regular’ medical treatments, or over on woo boards discussing their woo treatments. There are discussions over the best recipe to make edibles for specific uses. True there are a bunch of heads discussing the best way to get trashed the fastest, but then again people use their pain meds to get trashed as well [or steal family members meds.]

This is kind of what worries me about medical marijuana. From what I’ve been able to tell most of the people who really advocate it are super into the whole marijuana culture and talk about all these “experiments” growers are doing with specific strains and coming up with specific treatments and dosages.

This isn’t science, and it’s on the same level as shamanism or a witch-doctor.

The thing about a properly developed medicine is rigorous science performed by professional chemists, biologists and etc has been applied to the medicine in years worth of testing to create appropriate dosing and usage guidelines. No amount of hobby-grower or even professional grower research on their plants is going to be the equivalent of that.

Again, not saying marijuana isn’t useful medically, I’m just saying if we take away the entire history of marijuana usage and also take away the fact that most people use it to get high, essentially positing a situation in which it was a newly discovered rare plant from Brazilian rainforests that did not have a high effect but had all the other effects there wouldn’t be this huge movement trying to legitimize the raw plant as a valid medicine. That doesn’t mean medicine couldn’t learn from the plant and develop real pharmaceuticals from it, it just is to say that the people who have been the genesis of the medical marijuana movement are mostly not parts of the medical profession nor are they professional researchers, they are hobbyists who enjoy the recreational use of the plant who have also advocated for the other uses.

Marijuana is a plant that is smoked recreationally and has some “off-label” usage that can be applied to certain physiological problems.

The biggest issue I have had with this concept of medical marijuana isn’t the fact that it is being used as a backdoor to legalize a means of getting high. Marijuana is a baby drug compared to the mind-altering effects of alcohol which is 100% legal, it’s stupid that it isn’t legal for recreational purposes. It also isn’t that I don’t think marijuana has any compounds that are useful medically, or even that I don’t believe marijuana can help with certain symptoms. It’s that the medical marijuana advocates actually seem to think their amateur research on “strains” and things of that nature is of such quality that not only is marijuana a useful plant it is just as good or even superior to professional created pharmaceuticals, and that it is often if not always the “best” cure for certain ailments.

When you combine medical MJ advocates constant talk of “pharmaceutical company conspiracies” it really makes me doubt any of their credibility at all.

Basically all that can really be said about medical MJ is:

Smoking it can sometimes relieve certain symptoms, but no rigorous scientific study has developed anything approaching proper guidelines for its use.

To me that makes it intrinsically inferior to many other pharmaceuticals produced by “evil” big pharma companies.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

@Annie-Xmas

People say marijuana hasn’t be shown to be really effective, yet there are anti-depressants on the market that have to be taken for six weeks to have any effect, that only work for about 1/3 of the people who take them (the rest an take more drugs), and that can make people more suicidal.

Marijuana is effective with the first dose, effects most people who smoke it, and doesn’t make anyone more nauseous. Go figure.

Drugs that are primary euphoriants make really really really crappy anti-depressants.

A medication that makes a person feel good even if they have no reason to feel good is not a good therapeutic option for legitimate mental health diagnoses like endogenous depression.

Otherwise, heroin would be the drug of choice to treat depression.

[Testy]

Another aspect of medical MJ is the way all prescriptions are not equal.

If I have a broken bone and am given demerol or the like. I can piss in the bottle at work and when the opiates test shows positive, I can simply wave the doc’s scrip and all is well.
If I’m prescribed MJ for something I can wave the scrip all I want but I’ll still be suddenly unemployed.
I believe this is due to the way everyone in an MJ dispensary is setting around going nudge-nudge-wink-wink while waiting to tell the doc their tale of woe. Everyone knows that a very high percentage of the people there are just wanting to get high.
Legalize it and be done with it.

Testy

[Peremensoe]

@Martin_Hyde

This isn’t science, and it’s on the same level as shamanism or a witch-doctor.

The thing about a properly developed medicine is rigorous science performed by professional chemists, biologists and etc has been applied to the medicine in years worth of testing to create appropriate dosing and usage guidelines. No amount of hobby-grower or even professional grower research on their plants is going to be the equivalent of that.

Again, not saying marijuana isn’t useful medically, I’m just saying if we take away the entire history of marijuana usage and also take away the fact that most people use it to get high, essentially positing a situation in which it was a newly discovered rare plant from Brazilian rainforests that did not have a high effect but had all the other effects there wouldn’t be this huge movement trying to legitimize the raw plant as a valid medicine. That doesn’t mean medicine couldn’t learn from the plant and develop real pharmaceuticals from it, it just is to say that the people who have been the genesis of the medical marijuana movement are mostly not parts of the medical profession nor are they professional researchers, they are hobbyists who enjoy the recreational use of the plant who have also advocated for the other uses.

Why would we want to “take away the entire history”? You cited willow bark earlier; it was the history of folk use of willow bark that started the experimentation, refinement and research that led to eventual standardization as a pharmaceutical. History is important knowledge.

Besides, a newly-discovered non-euphoric medicinal plant in the rainforest (which presumably would mean new to us, not to natives of the area) wouldn’t need a huge movement to legitimize it; it wouldn’t be illegal.

The principal turn away from science here was in the original prohibition of the plant, not in efforts to reapply historical knowledge and folk practice.

@Martin_Hyde

…no rigorous scientific study has developed anything approaching proper guidelines for its use.

To me that makes it intrinsically inferior to many other pharmaceuticals produced by “evil” big pharma companies.

Meh. Actual physicians have been known to prescribe lab-standard pharmaceuticals off-label too, basically winging it on suggestive preliminary reports from here and there. I think that practice is pretty questionable too. There is not necessarily a bright line between folk practice and white-coat professionalism.

[Gary_Robson]

@Qadgop_the_Mercotan

Did you read my posts? “Medical marijuana” as operated in California co-opts the health system into supplying casual users. For every chemo patient whose nausea it helps, there’s thousands of folks getting a script for it for reasons which don’t rise to the level of legitimate medical need or appropriateness of prescription.

Legalize it and take it out of the hands of the medical system, which is not prepared to handle it in a sane and appropriate manner. Then docs can tell chemo patients who aren’t getting benefit from Marinol or other antinauseants that if they want, they could go buy some THC in its original delivery form if they want.

Yes, I did read your posts. We are, for the most part, in agreement. We’re just using the term “medical marijuana” differently.

I think that people who need it for medical issues (or believe they need it for medical issues) should have access to it. I don’t particularly care whether that access is provided by fully legalizing marijuana or by creating a “medical marijuana” law that partially legalizes it.

I’m the first to admit that most of our current medical marijuana laws are not well-written and are being horribly abused. The solution to that is either to fix those laws or just legalize it at a Federal level. The solution is not to kill the laws and deny legal access to a substance that undeniably has useful properties.

[Marley23]

@Martin_Hyde

This is kind of what worries me about medical marijuana. From what I’ve been able to tell most of the people who really advocate it are super into the whole marijuana culture and talk about all these “experiments” growers are doing with specific strains and coming up with specific treatments and dosages.

This isn’t science, and it’s on the same level as shamanism or a witch-doctor.

Yes and no: it goes without saying that big-time potheads can have very specific and peculiar views about what’s good and what isn’t. You can find that kind of behavior in music lovers or movie lovers or exercise mavens and so on and so on. On the other hand, yes, botany is a science. It’s not up to snuff for medical science, but this is the kind of thing you’re going to see while it’s illegal and out of bounds for more reliable testing. I think that in comparing this to shamanism, you’re allowing your feelings about pot smokers to color your opinions about the issue. OK, so some of the potheads out there want the stuff to be approved medicinally because they see it as a step along the road to legalization. So what? Their motives don’t really matter. If it helps people medicinally and is a good option, then it should be a medical option. If it should be legal, it should be lega.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@Marley23

Perhaps they want people in pain to get a useful medical treatment. I know it sounds crazy, but there you have it.

Okay, I’ll play your little game. Marijuana is a wonder drug for pain, dramatically effective, yet nonaddictive and virtually harmless. Why do you want to force people in pain to go through a doctor to get it?

[Marley23]

@Cosmic Relief

Marijuana is a wonder drug for pain, dramatically effective, yet nonaddictive and virtually harmless.

I never said any of that, but for some reason I can tell this is not the part I’m suposed to argue with you about.

Why do you want to force people in pain to go through a doctor to get it?

Because I think patients should get their medications from pharmacists and doctors. It’s important that those things should be handled responsibly because we’re talking about people’s health. And on the other hand, I don’t want to see people treating their illnesses with weed when it’s not going to be effective.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@Marley23

Because I think patients should get their medications from pharmacists and doctors. It’s important that those things should be handled responsibly because we’re talking about people’s health. And on the other hand, I don’t want to see people treating their illnesses with weed when it’s not going to be effective.

Doctors and pharmacies would be completely free to prescribe & dispense weed to their heart’s content if it were legalized. If it were medically restricted, you wouldn’t really be stopping anyone from using it off-label. You’d just be continuing to heap penalties on them and recreational users for no good reason but that you’ve decided it’s “medicine”.

I do understand this argument, but I disagree with it because this is just a plant that can grow in anybody’s sunny backyard. That fact, plus the fact that it’s essentially harmless, plus the fact of long history of people making their own personal decisions regarding its use, will make a mockery of medical control just as it has made a mockery of government control.

[Marley23]

@Cosmic Relief

Doctors and pharmacies would be completely free to prescribe & dispense weed to their heart’s content if it were legalized.

If it were legal but not approved for any kind of medicinal use? That’s news to me. I’ll schedule a checkup and tell the doctor to prescribe me some fudge brownies.

If it were medically restricted, you wouldn’t really be stopping anyone from using it off-label. You’d just be continuing to heap penalties on them and recreational users for no good reason but that you’ve decided it’s “medicine”.

I think it should also be legal. I guess I didn’t come out and say it but I thought that was implied. I think recreational use should be legal and medicinal use should be studied.

[hajario]

@Marley23

If it were legal but not approved for any kind of medicinal use? That’s news to me. I’ll schedule a checkup and tell the doctor to prescribe me some fudge brownies.

Maybe not strictly prescribed but possibly recommended. Like a glass of red wine or an aspirin a day could be recommended.

I think it should also be legal. I guess I didn’t come out and say it but I thought that was implied. I think recreational use should be legal and medicinal use should be studied.

I think that nearly everyone who has posted so far agrees with this.

[CoolHandCox]

If you’re nauseous or not hungry, smoke…it helps.

[Chronos]

I’m actually not convinced that it should be legalized (though it should have its schedule lowered). But that’s a completely separate argument from medical marijuana. You want to legalize it, write a law legalizing it, and let’s put it to a vote. But don’t try to go through the back door to legalization by trashing the medical system.

[Procrustus]

@Chronos

I’m actually not convinced that it should be legalized (though it should have its schedule lowered). But that’s a completely separate argument from medical marijuana. You want to legalize it, write a law legalizing it, and let’s put it to a vote. But don’t try to go through the back door to legalization by trashing the medical system.

“Trashing the medical system???” Like gay marriage ruins “regular” marriage? The “medical system” is find and dandy, with or without medical marijuana. Or maybe it’s not, but we an try to make it better. Medical marijuana doesn’t do any harm to anyone. Or maybe it does, but what the hell, we’re supposed to be a “free country.”

Sure, I would like to legalize marijuana. Lots of laws doing so have been written, but not passed. Maybe a decade of two of inroads on the whole idea of marijuana prohibition through more acceptance of the non-recreation use of the plant will bring about a time when people and their elected representatives will have the courage to do the right thing. In the meantime, allow sick people (and non-sick people) to have a little easier access to a drug that you can’t overdose on and isn’t addictive, seems like a good start.

In other words, what’s wrong with trying to back door something to accomplish a good thing if going through the front door isn’t working.