Both the mayor and his wife have ties with the dominant drug cartel in Guerrero, as do the local police.
I think you’re giving the OP a little too much credit if you think he was trying to make a rational point.
It wasn’t poor wording, though. We knew what he meant. Der Trihs was made fun of for not getting it. After that, we were discussing it like normal people. Then njtt had to come in and double down on Der Trihs’s stupidity.
Then Crazyhorse and Colibri sorted through the entrails and found this one thing that had the appearance some slight merit, and used it to ridicule the OP. They didn’t get that the entire line of thinking was wrong, based on a complete misunderstanding of what the OP was saying.
What the OP was saying is obvious. That’s why so many of us are getting it, and now arguing with those who don’t. I wonder if the reason Colibri and Crazyhorse aren’t getting it is that they already think that the American attention being paid to this is stupid. Crazyhorse blames Americans, acting like they don’t have the right to be upset since it’s our drug money causing it. And Colibri thinks we are paying attention due to a sort of “white girl syndrome,” and not because this action, as he admits, is especially brutal.
He was not in any way making any meaningful comparison, at least, in the way these guys define that concept. It was a rant about how bad this particular incident is. Everyone in America already instantly knows how bad ISIS is, so using them is quite evocative. None of us thought he was saying that they actually were similar or had anything to do with each other. That was the stupidity of Der Trihs’s post.
In fairness, the idea that a right wing ideologue is confused by the difference between Mexicans and ISIS is not wholly without precedent
This is a nation where millions of people think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Obama is a “secret Muslim” and in league with terrorists because he’s black. So yes, I think it’s rational to wonder if when someone equates ISIS and Mexican drug cartels it’s because of racism, because equating brown and Muslim is a fairly common American behavior.
If the OP was just a rant, or wake up call, or whatever, about the horrific violence in Mexico there would be no need invoke any mention of ISIS at all.
If the comparison to ISIS was only intended as an example, like “what they are doing is even worse than ISIS!”, as you seem to think was the case, there would be no need to ask if Mexico was training ISIS members, if ISIS was sending members to Mexico, refer to Mexico as that shithole down south, or ask “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” - these were the only sentiments expressed in the OP.
I would have hoped that more people in the US were already just as aware of these decades-old problems in Mexico, if not more so, than they are of the relatively recent and comparitively trivial menace that ISIS poses. Any OP that communicated that sentiment in even semi-understandable language would be fine with me.
I don’t act like people in the US don’t have the right to be upset about the violence in Mexico because it is their money that is paying for it. I act like they have no right not to be, and no right to lay the blame on Mexico. Making the statement (or asking the question as it was disguised) “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” is laying the blame squarely on Mexico and 99.99% of their population who are innocent.
If 100% of the population of Canada (equal to approximately 10% of the US) was giving a good portion of their income directly to ISIS every day, day after day, for years, the US would have a very serious problem on their hands.
And if ISIS was able to use the staggering bankroll they were being handed by Canadians to control entire police forces and local governments within the US I think you might object to Canadians referring to “that shit hole down south” and making “WTF is wrong with you USA?” posts on message boards every time the US was grieving over Canadian-funded mass murders in the US.
That is correct.
Does ISIS act like the drug cartels or do the drug cartels act like ISIS? It seems like that’s what the thread starter was meaning.
Is that what CubsFan was doing? Maybe CubsFan was referring to the corruption of Mexican government officials and law enforcement, and the glamorized narco culture.
But I do agree that we in the US need to stop financing the cartels by purchasing their drugs. Unfortunately we have our own narco/criminal culture that’s glamorized, among many other problems.
No, we don’t.
All we see is violence used for terror & domination.
They did that stuff in Ancient Rome, In Mussolini’s Rome, & the Mafia does it in Rome today.
Man’s evil is in no way new.
You say you don’t see the parallel and then in the very next sentence explain the parallel. Make up your mind.
[QUOTE=Crazyhorse]
I act like they have no right not to be, and no right to lay the blame on Mexico. Making the statement (or asking the question as it was disguised) “Seriously what the fuck Mexico??” is laying the blame squarely on Mexico and 99.99% of their population who are innocent.
[/QUOTE]
Let me break it down for you since you still don’t get it. The Mexican government, at multiple levels, directly called for and caused the slaughter of those students. The Mexican drug cartel/gang members etc… carried out the massacre (well, after the Mexican police killed a few themselves before turning them over to the gang). That sounds like a pretty serious case of “What the fuck Mexico?” to me. I’m sorry that I didn’t specifically state “Except for the innocent citizens of Mexico of course.”. I didn’t realize so many dipshits were going to white knight for them in this pretty straightforward thread.
[QUOTE=DT]
So yes, I think it’s rational to wonder if when someone equates ISIS and Mexican drug cartels it’s because of racism, because equating brown and Muslim is a fairly common American behavior.
[/QUOTE]
If you think equating the identical actions of these two groups is the same as saying that Mexicans are Muslim there is no hope for you.
And you’re sorely mistaken if you think Americans equate brown to Muslim. That’s just fucking stupid. There’s been brown folks around these parts for decades before Muslims really became a “thing” for us. And, from what I’ve seen, only a fraction of the Muslims in the world are even brown. I don’t think ANY of the ISIS Muslims are brown. Seems any shade other than White American Male is lumped in as Brown.
Fucking racist prick.
My hope got crushed on that one a long time ago. Most of the times I bring up Mexico’s issues people look at me like I’ve just said space aliens invaded three months ago and have been gradually conquering the planet to use humans as food.
I had a friend who was smart, educated, in a professional job and generally paid attention to the major news stories who brought up a possible trip to Mexico. This was a timeframe closer to the end of the US involvement in Iraq. My response was along the lines of Iraq being more stable and less violent. The reaction… well I might as well have said there were human eating space aliens at her proposed vacation site.
Maybe the lone bright side of this tragedy is the chance of some broader attention being paid to the issues in Mexico. I’m not holding my breath though.
In Rome?
He’s talking about Rome New York.
Are there really organizations in Italy today that murder buss loads of people, take over towns, and record themselves torturing and beheading their victims in order for it to be disseminated by the media?
Not all at the same time, true.
However-- The Mafia can & does murder hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people per year.
They can, & do control the real political power of large areas of Italy & Sicily.
They can, and do, torture, and recording the torture, to use as a threat towards others, has happened.
BTW–the recording issue is not covered in the link, and I’m certain that at least a few nitpickers will claim that the whole thing is therefore invalidated. :smack:
So in other words, no. But thanks for the link. I watched a video not too long ago about the murder of Falcone by bomb. Horrible. They seem way more brazen than the LCN here.
But in regards to the cartels, isn’t this the second time they murdered a couple bus loads of people? After knowing about the videos of the cartels decapitating men and women, drums of acid for torture, I don’t know how some of these singers can give these singers can make songs giving it up for the leaders like Chapo. Not to mention there’s a huge fan base for the music and culture.
Damn, I didn’t know about the acid drum crap so I searched google. First link was a Liveleak purported to show 4 livenude Mexican women being beheaded then melted in a drum of acid. Did NOT watch that thing but holy crap.
ISIS, Cartels, random mobs, it’s hard to understand how multiple humans can break so bad that a group of them could do something like that together and at no point does one of them recoil in horror and either run away or start killing the rest of the group.
I say this with love:
You’re kind of stupid.
I’ve only seen the very beginning of a couple of the videos, just to see if the cartels really were doing this. As soon as I saw the people lined up naked I stopped. The set up and the accompanying comments at liveleak were enough. I chose not to view the video of Daniel Perlman’s execution and I didn’t want to watch these.
I too was shocked that 1) the cartel members could all go through with this and 2) how they possibly can recruit when it’s almost certain you’re going to end up in a video made by the rival cartel.
I then found out some people are forced by the cartels to work for them. “Join or we kill you and your family.” Whether or not they joined voluntarily or not, by that time, sticking around is having only a slightly better chance of not ending up like these poor people on video. It’s almost like a variation of Winston Smith’s torture. Getting people to the point they’ll say “Do it to Julia!” so long as its not done to them.
Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues.
The cartel’s conversations were intercepted by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in 2014 while investigating the cartel for trafficking drugs into suburban Chicago. Mexico sought the text messages for years, but American officials handed over the 23,000 only last year, in part because of a lingering distrust of the Mexican government, an investigator said. The D.E.A. declined to comment.
So the U.S. expects Mexico to help fight America’s drug problem–but the U.S. refused for 8 years to help solve one of the biggest mass murders in Mexico?
To be fair, I think we can explain four of those years.