Is nuclear warefare feasible?

Donald Trump recently stated he would not take any cards off the table, and said indirectly said he would bomb Europe as well as anywhere else given the situation.

video of it - - YouTube

So does this mean a Trump administration would re-arm nukes? It is to my knowledge we’ve been disarming many nukes that would just destroy the world (with fallout), but is it actually possible people will agree with trump to rearm nuclear weapons or even create new ones? With every nuke you have it the potential for an accidental disaster. How can he be real about this? Do political strategies out weigh science and humanity? Would the United States ever actually launch a nuke? If so I’m assuming it would be an extremely weak nuke in comparison to some of the ones we have disarmed. Would we rearm these powerful nukes and even use them? What is the point of having nukes on standby aside from threats? Does he actually plan to use them instead of getting rid of them globally?

My understanding is that the fallout effect of thousands of nuke explosions is actually exaggerated and that billions of people might survive a US-Russia exchange. Someone correct me.

Why would he need to ‘re-arm nukes’? What does that even mean? The US has literally thousands of nukes that are in service and could be used if needs be.

Let’s see…would the US every launch a nuke? Certainly, depending on circumstances. The US policy for using them is basically that any use of WMD against the US will (or I suppose could, at the discretion of the President) be responded to with a nuke. So, yeah…if, say, North Korea launched a nuke at the US or perhaps an ally, the US certainly could respond with nukes. My WAG is that a US nuke would be many times more destructive than anything the North Koreans, say, have…assuming we went that route (we could just use conventional forces against them instead). We don’t need to re-arm anything…we never disarmed the things. Why are they on standby? Basically to ensure no one is stupid enough to use the things against us…same reason other countries keep their nukes on standby.

Does Trump plan to use the things? My WAG is no…he’s basically trolling people. He has no more intention of using them than Obama does, or any other President. What Trump is doing is basically gaming the system like the player in a reality show, again IMHO. Most of his bluster and crazy talk is just him being an ass and blustering and talking crazy because that’s what he calculates as the best way for him to stay on top and become President.

Most of the studies are not fallout based. They are based on the atmospheric effects of multiple city-sized fires. Volcanic explosions are known to cause worldwide changes in climate, and the theory is that a full scale nuclear exchange would cause a similar change. It’s not an On the Beach scenario, it’s an expanded “Year without a Summer” scenario. It’s hypothetical, of course.

Certainly large portions of the world population would survive. North America and Europe wouldn’t be in very good shape, and the effects of the loss of the industrialized world on the Southern Hemisphere. . . well, your guess is as good as mine. I think it’s safe to say that civilization as we know it would no longer exist.

The only winning move is not to play.

This. The global economy would cease to exist, so even the survivors would be unemployed, in the greatest conceivable depression. Secondary disruptions, like food riots, would kill millions more. We’d be lucky to halt the collapse at a steam-engines and telegraph-wires stage of technology, and might fall all the way down to horse-drawn wagons.

Of all the dumb, unthinking, stupid shit that Donald Trump has said, this one actually doesn’t bother me much. Just because he won’t specifically announce he’s taking the option off the table doesn’t commit him to it, or even necessarily mean he’d even seriously consider it.

Donald Trump knows exactly fuck all about nuclear weapons policy or deterrence theory. Unfortunately, he’s hardly alone in his ignorance.

While a number of nuclear weapons and weapon delivery systems such as the BGM-109 Ground Launched Cruise Missile, the UGM-96 ‘Trident C-4’ SLBM, the and the LGM-25C ‘Titan II’, LGM-30F ‘Minuteman II’ and LGM-118A ‘Peacekeeper’ ICBMs have been retired since the end of the Cold War, the United States maintains an active stockpile of gravity bombs (B-61), SLBMs (UGM-133 ‘Trident D-5’), and ICBMs (LGM-30G ‘Minuteman III’), all of which can be deployed rapidly upon executive order. The United States also maintains an OPLAN for deployment or response from an attack which is updated periodically, the details of which are classified but address the known security threats and responses. (BTW, the reduction in nuclear arsenals has less to do with the real or perceived need for such weapons and more about the extreme cost of having to maintain and upgrade the weapons and delivery systmes.)

Nuclear weapons are not intended to be ‘used’ in the sense of ever having to launch them. They are, instead, ostensibly deterrence weapons (e.g. they prevent an opponent from escallating warfare too extensively), but also function as political chits in order to gain attention and favorable treatment under duress from other powers, a lesson that China, and more recently, North Korea have learned very well. Because of the scale of damage of these weapons and the lack of consideration or effort to deploy them, they are different from any conventional weapon. The danger isn’t so much that a rational actor (e.g. a legitimate head of government) will knowingly and wilfully instigate nuclear conflict, but rather that either sabotage or misinformation in the ‘fog of war’ will result in an unintended launch and use of weapons by one state against another, precipitating a large scale response and all that comes with it.

There is also the potential for a non-state actor to acquire and use nuclear weapons. Fortunately, weapons developed by the US, the former Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, France, and (presuambly) the Peoples Republic of China and India have sophsticated interlocks (generally referred to as Permissive Action Links) that prevent an unauthorized user from effecting detonation of a weapon. (It is possible to get partial detonation by sabotage but the result will only be a low grade fizzle or disperal of nuclear material with no energetic fission yield.). Weapons developed by nascent nuclear powers such as Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, et cetera may not have these controls and be more vulnerable to capture and use by rogue factions of a nation’s military or private actors. (BTW, the claim that there are unaccounted for weapons from the former Soviet arsenal is untrue, and even if it were several components in the detonation systems and fission boost injection systems would be aged out in any case.).

However, again, possession of such weapons is more useful than the actual application of them, even for “crazy” regimes like North Korea. This isn’t to say that some organization hell bent on nuclear terrorism couldn’t deploy and use such a device, but the threat of wide scale attack is, at this point, slim, except for the possibility of a false positive indication of imminent attack. This is not a hypothetical; both the United States and the former Soviet Union/Russia have seen instances where early warning systems indicated an attack where none was in progress, and as other nations build up arsenals and warning capability, safeguards against false positives indications should be a part of nuclear surity planning, especially in the case of ‘launch on warning’ status for deterrence theory.

As for the effects of nuclear weapons, there are plenty of resources online including a book published by the Department of Energy and later the National Nuclear Security Agency with that title, the Federation of American Scientists website, and MissileThreat.com addressing nuclear weapon delivery systems and effects. The worst apocalypic fears of a world rendered sterile from a global nuclear exchange, and the persistance of the “nuclear winter” effect are both overstated, but the degree to which even a limited nuclear exchange could damage the world economy and result in extensive mortality and morbidity beyond the direct effects of blast, ionizing radiation, and fallout should not be downplayed by anyone who is evaluating the impact that a nuclear exchange would have. A single high altitude nuclear blast above the continental United States optimized for x-ray yield could effectively destroy much of the communications and power transmission infrastructure that we rely upon, and it would take at least a decade or more to rebuild this from scratch notwithstading the ancillary effects on our economic ability to preservere in such a scenario. A few well placed blasts just east of the Rocky Mountains, salted with fissionable actinides could spread enough persistant fallout across the Midwest to render the “Breadbasket of America” unusable for years until topsoil is removed and replaced. A single attack in Midtown Manhattan or San Francisco would destroy trillions of dollars in real estate and financial institutions. We would survive, but the cost is almost incalculable, and worse yet is the sense of vulnerability this would create.

Trump is blathering on, and even if he were sincere in his intentions, it would take more than two presidential administrations to design, develop, and deploy new generations of nuclear weapons and modern delivery systems, especially since most of the facilities used in the production of weapon-grade nuclear material in the United States (primarily the Savanah River and Hanford Sites) have been deactivated and are currently in the process of being remediated. Just re-establishing this capability, even assuming no effective political opposition, would be the work of a decade or more.

Stranger

Well… actually we have used them twice, so yes, it’s a possibility. Highly unlikely at the moment, and I hope it remains unlikely. I also hope Trump doesn’t get elected.

The Pandora box is opened on this, so we have to play.

The username/title combo made me think, “Need answer fast?”

It means that Trump flaps his gums to get a reaction, having figured out that nothing he says can knock him out of the race, and that the more outrageous he becomes the greater the name recognition.

How about a nice game of chess?

If Trump wanted to build a vast number of unnecessary nuclear weapons the Joint Chiefs and the cabinet would tell him he was an idiot.

The USA hasn’t been decommissioning nuclear weapons to be nice, they’ve been doing it because they didn’t need as many. As the accuracy of delivery systems increases, the need for a vast number of warheads decreases.

The U.S. nuclear arsenal is more than sufficient to incinerate any country on earth and then some.

It’s actually as if someone is daring him to be increasingly outrageous, and every time he thinks he’s hit the limit the threshold for perposterousness just goes higher. I’m starting to imagine that this is sort of a Nick of Time-like scenario where someone is holding Trump’s family at gunpoint and demanding that he get himself kicked out of the race, only he just can’t seem to find an abrasive eough note. Rod Serling or William Syndey Porter would love this shit. “Submitted for your approval, one Donald Trump: failed businessman, low grade celebrity, bad combover, now running for the highest office…in the Twilight Zone.”

It isn’t an issue of the accuracy of the weapons; in fact, the most precise delivery systems, the ‘Peacekeeper’ ICBM and the ‘GLCM’ cruise missile, have been retired, and production of the B-2 ‘Stealth’ bomber severely curtailed. The US has been decommissioning delivery systems and moving nuclear weapons to the Hedge Stockpile and Inactive Reserve (with the oldest and least failsafe weapons being dismantled entirely) primarily because of the extreme costs of maintaining the weapon systems which serve no useful deterrant purpose in the Cold War environment. Those reductions are substantial, going from over a thousand ICBMs on deployment, over half carrying 3 (MMIII w/ Mk 12A) or 10 (PK w/ Mk 21) RVs to less than five hundred carrying only single Mk 21 RVs. There are similar quantity reductions in SLBMs and gravity bombs, and the intermediate range class of ballistic and cruise missiles completely decommissioned.

Stranger

What about neutron bombs? They don’t require much fissionable material. Could fissionable material from weapons being dismantled be recycled into neutron bombs?

Wasn’t one reason neutron bombs were not produced is that they make nuclear war more feasible?

A neutron bomb (enhanced radiation weapon) is basically a boosted fission or low grade fusion weapon in which neutron production is optimized over energetic x-rays (which are what cause the blast effects we see due to heating of the atmosphere). Although neutron bombs have low energetic yields, they don’t use less fissionable material, and in fact in terms of yield per amount of weaponizable material they’re very inefficient. The intended purpose of the neutron weapon was to produce a high number of energetic neutrons which could be used to both damage human tissue and activate fissionable materials like the [SUP]238[/SUP]U that makes up depleted uranium armor and shells, killing troops and temporarily making the area uninhabitable, while reducing persistent effects and long half-life radiation. They have also been used and proposed for use as antiballistic missile and antisatellite weapons. However, the tactical application of such weapons in battlefield use has been demonstrated in simulation to escalate into general exchange (and the non-discriminatory nature of such a weapon is ethically unpalatable), while ABM and ASAT weapons have gone to kinetic interception (a kill vehicle physically intercepts the target) rather than using a nuclear warhead for numerous reasons including logistics, security, and cost, not to mention the concerns of detonating even a low yield nuclear weapon in the upper atmosphere or over an inhabited region.

Nuclear grade weapon material could be removed from weapons in the Inactive Stockpile or that are retired, but there is still the problem that processing material requires highly specialized facilities and produces both low and high level nuclear waste, albeit not as much as new production. We have facilities for mixing highly enriched uranium (HEU) into mixed oxide fuel (MOX), mostly from material purchased that was left over from a Soviet advanced attack submarine program (see Project Sapphire for the frightening details of how insecurely this potentially weaponizable material was stored following the collapse of the Soviet Union). It would take years to develop facilities specifically for new weapon production, and we would likely need to conduct some kind of test program at least at a subscale level (which is really what the National Ignition Facility at LLNL was designed for). I’m dubious that we could produce a new class of nuclear weapons, even using existing weaponizable material, in the four year span of a single presidential administration, and it would be a challenge to deploy them within eight.

Stranger

We must not allow a neutron bomb gap.

I personally would not shy away from this possibility. To me, it seems like the Geneva Conventions and Protocols assume that the nations that have subscribed to them will win, since the only party eking out the punishment is the UN, and if someone uses nuclear weapons, they’re more likely to win, meaning that there will be no punishment, and therefore the only deterrent to using nuclear or biological weapons is the leader’s empathy and care for humanity. Therefore, the best leader is a sociopathic leader.

Best username/title combo ever.