Is obesity the symptom of an addiction?

[Mighty_Girl]

I have struggled with weight problems since I became an adult. Last year, after having gained 20 lbs. overweight. I decided go back to my original weight and finally succeeded. I have kept in track for quite a while now.

Yesterday while having a conversation with a friend he was praising me for my will power. He commented that he would never hire an overweight person in his company, because, he beliefs "they are just like drug/niccotine addicts. He says that these (addicts) people are not reliable, “if they don’t have the strenght to do what’s best for them, why should I trust them”.

I have to admit that after listening to him I saw some merit in his arguments about obesity = addiction. Regardless of his discrimination (which I don’t agree with), should we consider obesity a food addiction? What is the difference between the two?

[SisterCoyote]

For one thing, not everyone who is overweight consumes excessive amounts of food.

Next, with an addiction, one requires increasing amounts of the substance to continue having the feeling one is seeking from the source of the addictions.

Also, you might want to point out to this friend that the root causes of obesity are not as cut and dried as overeating.

I highly recommend the book Self-esteem Comes in All Sizes for anyone who wants more information on how overweight does not equal lazy, ugly or unhealthy.

[Mighty_Girl]

I have to point out that he didn’t say “overweight”, he said “obese”. By mentioning a case of a common acquaintance, who falls in the category of “morbid obese” I believe he didn’t simply mean chubby, snuggly, fatty or anything of the sort (I am not skinny myself).

[Mighty_Girl]

I have to point out that he didn’t say “overweight”, he said “obese”. By mentioning a case of a common acquaintance, who falls in the category of “morbid obese” I believe he didn’t simply mean chubby, snuggly, fatty or anything of the sort (I am not skinny myself).

[SisterCoyote]

But that’s my point.

The reasons for a person to “suffer from” obesity are by no means conclusive.

There is no conclusive correlation between “obesity” and health problems, laziness or overeating. The research that has been done on the subject is both contradictory and inconclusive - when I’m at home I’ll do some more digging.

Is the person who you call morbidly obese unhealthy? or do they get enough exercise and are still a large person?

There are many more factors involved, and you can substitute “obese” for “overweight” in my initial post and it’s still true.

[Drastic]

…with an addiction, one requires increasing amounts of the substance to continue having the feeling one is seeking from the source of the addictions.

Is this really the accepted definition? By it, it would seem that a smoker, who has like clockwork smoked a pack a day every day for twenty years isn’t actually addicted. Perhaps they aren’t, but I’m dubious.

I’m also curious as to cites supporting the contention that there is no link between obesity and health problems.

[SisterCoyote]

From the book referenced above:

An exhibit of diet products at the Smithsonian Institute ended with these words: “There is no known cause for obesity. There is no known cure.” (p 34)

From http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/gaesser/obesity01.htm :

…fat people are no more likely to have clogged arteries than thin people.

from Self-esteem…

Researchers Susan Wooley, Ph.D., and David Garner, Ph.D., note that there are “conflicting opinions on the health risks associated with obesity, and the conclusion that obesity is dangerous represents a selective view of the data.”

From The New England Journal of Medicine 338 (WRT the specific figure 300,000 deaths per year attributed to obesity):

…that figure is by no means well-established. Not only is it derived from weak or incomplete data, but it is also called into question by methodological difficulties of determining which of many factors contribute to premature death.

from Self-esteem…

True addiction has two characteristics: (1) tolerance, meaning you have to increase the dose progressively to achieve the effect originally produced by a smaller amount, and (2) withdrawal, meaning that unpleasant symptoms will occur if the substance is discontinued abruptly.

Certainly an abrupt lack of food doesn’t cause unpleasant symptoms, although a long-term lack of same certainly will!

This is just with the resource I have to hand, and I’d forgotten the second component of addiction (so sue me - no, don’t).

Like I said, I’ll do more nosing around when I have a chance.

[Mighty_Girl]

I am neither endorsing nor contending my friend’s argument. Since he is not here to defend his position I will play the devil’s advocate.

The person that he originally mentioned as an example is cronically ill (problems in her joints, menstrual irregularities, hemorrages, head aches, heart problems, constant fatigue. Doctors (she’s seen many different specialists for her different health problems) have all pointed out obesity as the main cause of all her health problems. Based on that (very unscientific, I admit) I would say that yes, obesity is a cause of health disorders.

As I said, he wans’t refering (he made it clear) to a large, or chubby person. He himself is at least 20 lbs. over the accepted scale, but he is not obese. He exercises regularly and has pretty good health and has a healthy appetite.

I accept (having not studied the subject myself) any scientific opinion that would decide that morbid obesity (over ) is not only caused by excesive ingestion of food, but it is, I think, naive to deny that consistently eating more than you can “burn” will lead to obesity and ultimately to health problems. In my case (I am petite, 20 lbs does make a difference), I noticed my overall health improved dramatically after loosing weight.

The cigarrette analogy seems appropriate. Some smokers do not increase their consumption overtime and yet remain cronically addicted to niccotine. Besides people who are obese must (in most/some cases?) eat more and more to keep gaining weight. Based on my limited knowledge of the subject I would say that if you ingest more calories than you can burn and yet remain consistent in your calory intake, you will ultimately reach the weight when your body will “need” that many calories and will just remain at that weight.

Furthermore, I see that obese people tend to make the same excuses that smokers do (I don’t know any addict to hard drugs). “Not all people are built to be thin”, they say, but I am sure nobody was built to be 300+ lbs at 5’4". “I will start on Monday”, yet they never start. “One more won’t hurt me”, etc.

Obesity = addiction doesn’t seem too far from the reality to me.

[Mighty_Girl]

I am neither endorsing nor contending my friend’s argument. Since he is not here to defend his position I will play the devil’s advocate.

The person that he originally mentioned as an example is cronically ill (problems in her joints, menstrual irregularities, hemorrages, head aches, heart problems, constant fatigue. Doctors (she’s seen many different specialists for her different health problems) have all pointed out obesity as the main cause of all her health problems. Based on that (very unscientific, I admit) I would say that yes, obesity is a cause of health disorders.

As I said, he wans’t refering (he made it clear) to a large, or chubby person. He himself is at least 20 lbs. over the accepted scale, but he is not obese. He exercises regularly and has pretty good health and has a healthy appetite.

I accept (having not studied the subject myself) any scientific opinion that would decide that morbid obesityis not only caused by excesive ingestion of food, but it is, I think, naive to deny that consistently eating more than you can “burn” will lead to obesity and ultimately to health problems. A person has the MO conddition if he/she “is either 50%-100% over normal weight, more than 100 pounds over normal weight, or sufficiently overweight to severely interfere with health or normal functionaccording to” accoding to www.webmd.com) In my case (I am petite, 20 lbs does make a difference. I noticed my overall health improved dramatically after loosing weight.

The cigarrette analogy seems appropriate. Some smokers do not increase their consumption overtime and yet remain cronically addicted to niccotine. Besides people who are obese must (in most/some cases?) eat more and more to keep gaining weight. Based on my limited knowledge of the subject I would say that if you ingest more calories than you can burn and yet remain consistent in your calory intake, you will ultimately reach the weight when your body will “need” that many calories and will just remain at that weight.

Furthermore, I see that obese people tend to make the same excuses that smokers do (I don’t know any addict to hard drugs). “Not all people are built to be thin”, they say, but I am sure nobody was built to be 300+ lbs at 5’4". “I will start on Monday”, yet they never start. “One more won’t hurt me”, etc.

Obesity = addiction doesn’t seem too far from the reality to me.

[Mighty_Girl]

Darn double post. Sorry, I added something in the last one.

[SisterCoyote]

Hm. The link above is broken. Sorry about that.

[SisterCoyote]

Research has been done on a handful of groups who were consistently fed enough calories that they could not possibly burn them off.

Few of the people gained enough weight (2 in one study, IIRC) to be considered obese; it was difficult for most people to gain any weight, and those who did gain weight lost it quickly without having to exercise more once they were returned to a “normal” diet. I’ll have to look up the study when I get home, but it does seem to suggest that there’s more going on than food.

[SisterCoyote]

Research has been done on a handful of groups who were consistently fed enough calories that they could not possibly burn them off.

Few of the people gained enough weight (2 in one study, IIRC) to be considered obese; it was difficult for most people to gain any weight, and those who did gain weight lost it quickly without having to exercise more once they were returned to a “normal” diet. I’ll have to look up the study when I get home, but it does seem to suggest that there’s more going on than food.

[Drastic]

Well, I’ve no problem accepting that the obese are no more likely to have clogged arteries than anyone else–in fact, I’d suspect that a body that stays relatively healthy (for whatever length of time) while obese will tend to have a more robust circulatory system (at least in a resting state) than otherwise, due to the need of getting the blood to more living mass. (Medical fact check here, Doper docs? Does fat tissue need blood supply to the extent that non-fatty tissue does?)

Are the obese no more likely to have joint problems than the non-obese? I’ve always had the impression that long-term obesity was right up there with career (American) football playing to do a number on one’s knees.

“Addiction” has always seemed remarkably ill-defined to me. The one you quote doesn’t leave me any less dubious, and I return again to the clockwork smoker. Now, I’ve never been one, but the ones I’ve known have tended to quickly ramp up to X amount per day, and pretty much stay there. Long-term Doper smokers, do you get less “effect” out of a pack of cigs now as compared to X years ago?

And for that matter, what exactly qualifies as withdrawal? Does it need to be actual physical distress, a la nicotine and morphine and alcohol and such, or do arguably negative changes in psychological affect count? I certainly know that the plural of anecdote isn’t data, but I’ve known some folks who got plum mean when trying to lose weight via dieting, and later gave it up because they just weren’t happy.

I dunno. I expect that addiction, like withdrawal, is a contiuum rather than explicit states. I think calling non-hyperthyroid (and similar known things) obesity the result of addiction may be stretching a bit, but not necessarily a lot.

[SisterCoyote]

I’ve known some folks who got plum mean when trying to lose weight via dieting, and later gave it up because they just weren’t happy

Yeah, well, how happy would you be if you were trying to maintain your body on half as many calories as it needs, and were hungry all the time? I find that (as a former dieter) to be a more likely reason for the change in psychological state than addiction.

Also:

…most commercial weight loss programs range from 945-1200 calories a day. The World Health Organization defines starvation (the point at which the body is dying) as 900 calories or less a day. That means that most programs are starvation or semi-starvation programs.

and

the Framingham study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1991, found that the risk of dying from Heart Disease is 70% higher in those with fluctuating weights than in those whose weight remains stable, regardless of their initial weight, blood pressure, smoking habits, cholesterol level or level of physical activity.

and

Studies done cross-culturally in areas where fat is accepted found that the rates of the so-called fat diseases were lower than the American average and indicate that it is the dieting and stress of being fat in a fatphobic society which causes many of our problems.

A lot has been said about the insurance studies linking heart disease and fat. Yet, Ancel Keys, who coordinated 16 separate long-term studies in seven different countries concluded: “In none of the areas of this study was overweight or obesity a major risk factor for death, or the incidence of coronary heart disease.”

(from: http://home.earthlink.net/~dawn_atkins/diets.htm)

[SisterCoyote]

I’ve known some folks who got plum mean when trying to lose weight via dieting, and later gave it up because they just weren’t happy

Yeah, well, how happy would you be if you were trying to maintain your body on half as many calories as it needs, and were hungry all the time? I find that (as a former dieter) to be a more likely reason for the change in psychological state than addiction.

Also:

…most commercial weight loss programs range from 945-1200 calories a day. The World Health Organization defines starvation (the point at which the body is dying) as 900 calories or less a day. That means that most programs are starvation or semi-starvation programs.

and

the Framingham study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1991, found that the risk of dying from Heart Disease is 70% higher in those with fluctuating weights than in those whose weight remains stable, regardless of their initial weight, blood pressure, smoking habits, cholesterol level or level of physical activity.

and

Studies done cross-culturally in areas where fat is accepted found that the rates of the so-called fat diseases were lower than the American average and indicate that it is the dieting and stress of being fat in a fatphobic society which causes many of our problems.

A lot has been said about the insurance studies linking heart disease and fat. Yet, Ancel Keys, who coordinated 16 separate long-term studies in seven different countries concluded: “In none of the areas of this study was overweight or obesity a major risk factor for death, or the incidence of coronary heart disease.”

(from: http://home.earthlink.net/~dawn_atkins/diets.htm)

[SisterCoyote]

Pardon me while I mutter a lot about the hamsters.

Also, I meant to mention: I haven’t been able to find anything about joints in particular, but I will say that, as a large woman, I did not start having joint problems until I stopped being active. (I lost my membership to my health club when I was fired, and haven’t been walking like know I should.)

In fact, I’m pretty sure that of the few health problems I’ve had lately, most if not all of them can be chalked up to my lack of movement and not to my weight.

[perspective]

This is relatively anecdotal, but… I’ve known people who have eaten well and exercised but still got large. I’ve also known people that binge eat and suffer from obesity. These people say that they have noticed a clear correlation between what they eat, when they eat, how they eat and whether or not they gain weight. I don’t doubt them.

I don’t think you can say obesity=food addiction. But to the OP title, I think obesity can be a symptom of a food addiction.

BTW, I think chronically overweight people have a lot of health problems and have known none that didn’t have them. If you can’t walk up a few flights of stairs or 5 or 6 blocks on level ground without heaving and gasping, that’s a health problem. If you’re so big you have to drive a cart to do your shopping, you have a problem. One of my chronically obese friends even has a handicapped sticker. Although this isn’t relevant anymore since her weight has caused her to effectively be a shut-in.

[Drastic]

So a large-scale study of two groups (non-smokers, non-drinkers, selected for not being from families showing past predisposition to heart troubles, types of cancer, rabies, etc.), one tending around obese and the other not, if somehow controlled to the same in/activity level, should have pretty mucn no significant deviation in health when they’re averaged.

Well, okay. I’ve got doubts about that, but I don’t think I’ve got terribly much invested in them. At this point I’m still mostly dubious about the diminishing-returns bit as a necessity for addiction.

[SisterCoyote]

Well, I don’t understand everything about addiction, to be fair.

But, still, it seems to me that everyone is addicted to food. Just like we’re addicted to oxygen.