Is "our psychology misandry"?

[Irishman]

Thank you for commenting on my thread. I’m sorry it took off before you could explain what you meant. I had hoped for a neutral place to start a discussion, not a pre-primed pile on.

@tomcar

My statements triggered deeply dysfunctional people who can’t really intellectually parse this out.

Respectfully, you haven’t expressed yourself very clearly, so parsing it out is not just the fault of the reader. Try a little more detail in your explanations, not just buzzword terms and assume we know what you mean.

@tomcar

Women built the patriarchy and maintain it. This is just biology and the man/woman cohabitation that has gone on for all of our existence.

I would like you to explain what you mean by the patriarchy. Because I’m having trouble seeing how it is caused by women.

@tomcar

If there is a human group that has withstood the most scrutiny, it is white men. If you call a man, fat and gross, it does not raise an eyebrow. If you call a woman fat and gross, it is a crime against humanity. The level of fragility of women is unparalleled.

Ok, this is a specific statement that can be evaluated. So you are equating the importance of appearance in how men are perceived and how women are perceived. Is that really true? Do men get “too old” to be leading men in movies by 40? Is pushing aside a male TV anchor for showing some wrinkles a thing?

Some people were knocking Kamala Harris’s age at 60 when running against Trump at nearly 80.

@tomcar

Go watch Ranging Bull. Go watch the Shining. White men have nothing to hide. Try to engage without being childish.

I’m sorry, I can’t figure out what about those movies I’m supposed to take away. Perhaps you could explain?

@tomcar

Women utterly and completely objectify men, but can’t stand a drop of scrutiny.

I find this perplexing. Women are literally posed on cars to make the cars seem sexy. Objectification of women is so commonplace as to be expected. Men are not scrutinized nearly as much, as stringently, or as universally depicted as sex objects.

@tomcar

Thousands of years men have been war fodder, filled up prisons and keep your lights on at night so saying the term patriarchy as a high status for all men is literal insanity, and it is just plain sexism.

That’s interesting. It is certainly true that not all men share the same status. Money and class are very significant factors in ranking men.

Whereas women used to not even be able to own property in their own right. When addressed in polite society, they were addressed by their husband’s name - “Mrs. John Applewhite”. Laws at one time made it illegal for women to testify against their husbands, even in the case of violent abuse. At one time, it wasn’t even a crime for a man to force sex on his wife.

So it’s fascinating that you don’t acknowledge that men have held a privileged position over women.

And you mentioned war fodder, but seem to overlook the way patriarchy gives a paternalistic attitude that men’s porpose is to protect women. Men resist women taking on hardships themselves out of that paternalism.

@tomcar

And yes, “Matriarchy” and “Patriarchy” Act and look the same. Women bosses and CEOs are just as dehumanizing when they take leadership rolls.

I don’t to I you are using those terms in the way most people do. Discussing leadership at a micro view of individual companies is very different that the society as a whole.

@tomcar

And expecting women to be ethical is sexist.

In sorry you think that someone is trying to hold women to a higher standard than men on that front, rather than desire men also be ethical. I would criticize any CEO for that, regardless of who they are.

I have yet to see any evidence of “patriarchy” favoring women over men. I have yet to see any description of how a matriarchy would be as a social system, or that it would resemble patriarchy.

There is justification that not all men are equally privileged, but I don’t think anyone said they were.

I appreciate your participation.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@Odesio

I’ve heard feminist discuss how damaging the patriarchy is to men. Look at the rates of suicide, incarceration, homicide, and deaths and injuries due to accidents for men compared to women.

There’s definitely an ongoing valid conversation about how the patriarchy is damaging to men, but I don’t see a fit with the OP-quoted suggestions that the patriarchy devalues men or is outright misandrist.

Whatever the patriarchy is doing to men, it’s doing worse to women, because the ultimate purpose of patriarchy is stabilizing an economic system that depends on oppressing women. A system with enough power to oppress half the human race can easily oppress the other half (and does). But it does so to a much lesser degree, because patriarchy is mainly about exploiting the reproductive and domestic labor of women.

Edited: Scrolling above I see the actual OP has returned to clarify their statements. As expected it’s a confused and childish attempt at a rhetorical double-reverse-headlock of “actually the real sexism is anti-male sexism and it’s all women’s fault but y’all aren’t ready for that conversation”. Their one and only valuable observation is this one:

@tomcar

And yes, “Matriarchy” and “Patriarchy” Act and look the same. Women bosses and CEOs are just as dehumanizing when they take leadership rolls

That’s true, switching from a patriarchy to a matriarchy would just create a different system of oppression. Surely there are a few who think otherwise, but feminist theory isn’t generally about creating a matriarchy, it’s tearing down every gender-based -archy. It’s just that men experience it as a threat because their supremacy is a thing of value, and losing a thing of value feels like oppression. To a very childish mindset, destruction of the patriarchy must entail creation of a matriarchy, which isn’t the case at all.

[Aspenglow]

Moderating:

@tomcar

There is a comment in this thread about the fragility of white men. Which is literally the weirdest projection of all time. If there is a human group that has withstood the most scrutiny, it is white men.

@tomcar

Women utterly and completely objectify men, but can’t stand a drop of scrutiny. This is possibly the biggest projection of all.

@tomcar

Thousands of years men have been war fodder, filled up prisons and keep your lights on at night so saying the term patriarchy as a high status for all men is literal insanity, and it is just plain sexism.

We have a list of Tired Topics here on the SDMB for issues we consider no longer a matter for debate. This is one of them. Here is the specific rule in our Terms of Service:

Men’s rights advocacy, including threads about how men are somehow disadvantaged in society, women are genetically inferior or have a predisposition toward specific gender roles, and how men are naturally entitled to be in charge.

Accordingly, this thread is closed, and further discussion of this issue in any other thread should be flagged for moderation.