Is PC gaming on the way out?

I don’t really think this is valid; If you’re willing to wait until all the games you want go on sale on Steam, you can wait until the console games you want go on sale too.

I can buy Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition for $13 on Amazon RIGHT NOW. That’s only $3 more than I paid for it during the “super mad crazy insane savings limited time only Steam sale” a couple of months ago. And that’s not even a “sale”; That’s just what the game COSTS now.

Steam is great for buying games that you’re not sure you want, but the fact of the matter is that for a lot of people it also leads to you buying a ton of games you don’t actually play (I still have at least half a dozen games acquired this summer that have never even been installed). Not really saving myself a lot of money there, no matter how good the bargains seemed at the time.

Are there some titles that are nichey enough that they don’t go down in price a whole lot? Sure. They’re also games that are nichey enough that I can’t buy them on Steam (or the PC at ALL) for any price, so they pretty much don’t deserve consideration in a “how much money am I saving” context.

I’d be very, VERY curious to see how much you -actually- saved on those 140 games. Because I have sincere doubts that it’s as much as you think it is. Especially if you were willing to purchase used physical media (and why not? It’s not like you’re losing anything, even if all you get is a disc, since your digital purchases don’t come with any ‘feelies’ either.).

Regarding Planetside 2: Well, I’m sure it’s a great technological feat, but get back to me when it has A) Actually come out and B) Actually made back its development costs. Because the first one wasn’t exactly what I’d call a runaway success. And if B never happens, it won’t be because it was “held back by consoles”. But it might well be because developing games that use all this cutting edge stuff is just too damn expensive, even now.

The only “revolution” we ever get when there’s a new generation of consoles is a revolution in how much it costs to develop for them (As in, it goes way the hell up) - I’ve never, EVER heard anyone say anything to support Kinthalis’ claims that “squeezing a lot of detail out of outdated hardware” costs more money. It’s actually the reverse - the longer a console has been out, the more tools there are and the more expertise there is in terms of methods and the like, plus, all the code for a lot of this stuff has already been written. It gets -cheaper- to make games as the console generation gets longer, not the reverse.

Used games? You mean the $5 discount from Gamestop?

Seriously, I don’t know how you could possibly not know that digital distribution allows for prices to come down on games sooner, and allows for sales that are simply NOT going to happen at retail.

A couple of Steam sales ago I got an entire publisher’s catalog of games for the price of a single, new console game. Some of these games were only a few months old. You just can’t do that at retail.

As for the cost of development, I did say that it was several factors. The marketing, legal, and sunk in costs of retail as well as higher development costs from having to work with outdated tech + development fees due to the console manufacturers. Not just that one factor. I would admit that it might be one of the smaller factors, but it’s still a factor.

Here is a list of what I currently own.

Age of Fear: The Undead King
Alan Wake
Alan Wake: American Nightmare
Alice: Madness Returns
Amnesia
And Yet It Moves
Anomaly Warzone: Earth
Assassin’s Creed 2
Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood
Assassin’s Creed: Director’s Cut
Assassin’s Creed: Revelations
Atom Zombie Smasher
Audiosurf
Bastion
Batman: Arkham Asylum GOTY
Batman: Arkham City
Beat Hazard
Binary Domain
Binding of Isaac
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Borderlands
Braid
Breath of Death VII
Bulletstorm
Cities in Motion
Cities XL 2011
Civilization V
Civilization V: Gods & Kings
Coconut Queen
Cogs
Company of Heroes
Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts
Crayon Physics Deluxe
Crusader Kings II
Cryostasis
Cthulhu Saves the World
Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble!
Darkness II
Darksiders
Death to Spies
Death to Spies: Moment of Truth
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Divinity II: Dragon Knight Saga
Dragon Age 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Drakensang: Phileassons Secret
Drakensang: The Dark Eye
Drakensang: The River of Time
Driver: San Francisco
Edge
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Europa Univeralis III
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Far Cry 2
From Dust
Frozen Synapse
Greed: Black Border
Half Life 2
Half Life 2: Episode One
Half Life 2: Epsiode Two
Half Life 2: Lost Coast
Hammerfight
Homefront
Jade Empire: Special Edition
Just Cause 2
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Kings Bounty: Armored Princess
LA Noire
Lead & Gold
Left 4 Dead 2
Limbo
Lone Survivor
Machinarium
Mafia II
Magicka Collection + The Stars are Left
Majesty Gold
Majesty II Collection
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Medieval II: Total War
Metro 2033
Mirror’s Edge
Mount & Blade: Warband
Osmos
Payday: the Heist
Penumbra Collection
Portal
Portal 2
Psychonauts
Quantum Conundrum: Season Pass
Red Faction: Armageddon
Red Faction: Guerrilla
Reign: Conflict of Nations
Revenge of the Titans
Rig & Roll
Risen
Rome: Total War Gold Edition
Saints Row: the Third
Shadowgrounds: Survivor
Sniper Elite V2
Space Rangers
SpaceChem
Stalker: Call of Pripyat
Stalker: Clear Sky
Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wolves
Starvoid
Steel Storm: Burning Retribution
Super Meat Boy
Superbrothers: Sword & Sorcery EP
Syndicate
Team Fortress 2
Terraria
The Secret World
The Witcher
The Witcher 2
Theatre of War 2
Torchlight
Total War: Fall of the Samurai
Total War: Shogun 2
Trauma
Trine
Trine 2
Tropico 3
UFO: Afterlight
Universe Sandbox
Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines
Velvet Assassin
Victoria II
VVVVVV
Warlock: Master of the Arcane
World of Goo
Ys: The Oath in Felghana

Total on that is a little shy of $600

From Gamestop’s website, this is what I can get for the same money (including used discs)

Alice: Madness Returns
Alan Wake
Alan Wake: American Nightmare
Assassin’s Creed 2
Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood
Assassin’s Creed: Director’s Cut
Assassin’s Creed: Revelations
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Darksiders
Dragon Age 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
Just Cause 2
LA Noire
Mirrors Edge
Saints Row the Third
Witcher 2

That’s about 20% of the list. I made it easy on myself by just starting with the franchise titles I assumed would be readily available on the Xbox360. And, sure, there’s a lot of indie titles and stuff in there (and also a lot of AAA titles including PC exclusives – really, you guys don’t get the Total War or Civilization franchises?) but, yeah, there’s a BIG gulf between your purchasing power on a PC versus on a console.

I’ll also be the first to note that this isn’t hard science. Sure, stuff might be on sale at Gamestop some other time but, likewise, I’m using used disc pricing today for games I’ve owned for years. It’s good enough to make my point.

Eh. If it’s good enough to make you feel you’ve made your point, that’s good enough, I guess. I personally would never, ever use Gamestop as a price guide, but if that’s where you would’ve bought the stuff, that’s that.

When I’m talking about used games, I traditionally start with Amazon, where I can usually score $10 to 50% off ‘list’ depending on the age and popularity of the game.

Acting like Gamestop is the only place to buy games is like acting like you can’t hook up a PC in your living room. Both common conceptions that don’t reflect reality very effectively. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t understand this perception that consoles v PC has to be an either/or proposition, or why any conversation about their relative strengths and weaknesses always ends up sounding like a Mac v. PC argument.

Console gaming is great because you never have to worry about system compatibility, you never have to upgrade your system between generations, easy, local multiplayer is a guarantee, and you can sell back your games to recoup your initial outlay.

PC gaming is great because hardware quality is **always **going to be better at the high end, games can be much more complex (MMOs, strategy games, etc) because of ubiquitous keyboard/mouse setups (and the aforementioned better hardware), Valve keeps discounting the crap out of absolutely everything (forcing other digital platforms to follow suit), online infrastructure for console games can easily support hundreds of players in a game at a time, there’s basically infinite backwards compatibility all the way back to the beginning of computer gaming, and of course a computer is way, way, way more useful than any dedicated media platform.

To me they’re complementary devices, and I use both. I have a PS3/xBox in my living room and I have a high-powered gaming machine in my office. Neither platform is going away any time soon and I’ll continue judging on a case-by-case basis which system I’ll be playing which games on, using a variety of criteria.

…acting like Steam is the only place to buy games :stuck_out_tongue:

If your counter-argument is that I could have combed Amazon or eBay for used games from who-knows-who to make up the other 80% of my list for the same cost, I’m very skeptical but I’m not about to start combing Amazon to find out for you.

The whole price argument is a bit self-serving too, IMHO.

It’s like arguing that your $50 phone calls only cell phone is better than my iPhone/Galaxy S3 because it’s cheaper.
Yeah, it’s cheaper because there are things you cannot do on your $50 cell phone, that you can do on an iPhone. If all you do is make calls and you don’t care about the 1,000+ other things you can do on a smartphone, that’s enough for you I guess.

But some segment of the population is willing to pay more for a better experience -hence iPhones :wink: It just so happens that in fact, at the end of the day the actual price of the platform, including a gaming library, isn’t too far off from a console, despite insistence that it is from people who don’t know better.

Sure. I’m much more interested in how much the platform costs to develop for, and the fact is that everytime we’ve had a new console generation, that price has gone up a ton.

There’s a reason so many JRPG developers have basically fled to handheld development.

A-fucking-men.

This USED to be the case. Now a days it’s a “feature” to have local multi-player on console games that aren’t built around the concept (i.e., fighting games, beat 'em ups).

I have both, so I know first hand.

As Airk pointed out, Steam sales are great if you want to wait for prices to come down. On release, games cost the same. Most gamers are keen to buy on release, particularly multi-player games.

The difference-- and I’m pretty sure we’ve talked about this before-- is that console games can easily be traded, allowing a discount of sorts after the fact. If you don’t like what retailers will give you, you can sell them on eBay or Amazon. PC games have typically been harder to resell, largely, IMO, because of the piracy issue. I have bought secondhand PC games, it’s just not as easy.

It may not be so easy for console games for much longer, though. I wouldn’t think that was so bad if consoles moved to digital download, but if it’s still physical media, and that media can’t be recycled via resale and trade, that will be a definite argument against console ownership for me.

Jophiel, the $650 you paid for your PC, that’s just parts, I got that right? A lot of buyers consider a monitor to be part of the cost of a PC system, and I’m guessing you didn’t include that. How about the OS? Are you running Windows? Any upgrades?

And the 140 games on your list, they cost $600 over 3 years of bargain hunting, right? You’re not saying that I could go to Steam and get those right now and pay about $4 each. Because I’m sure I can’t. I expect that some of those games on your list may have been ones you didn’t really want and maybe haven’t played, but that you got as part of a bundle.

On review I see that Johnny Bravo already talked about recouping costs. He also has the right of it when he says that PCs and consoles are complimentary. That’s true for me, especially with kids in the house.

On release most PC games cost $10-$20 less. And as mentioned, you don’t have to wait as long as you do for the price to come down as you do with retail games (Blizzard games being about the only exception to this).

Agreed on both counts. Game trading has been dead on PC for years now. No one does that anymore. But again, those sales have taken the sting out of that feature. And thanks to a largely digital distribution platform for the PC, even games selling at low prices equals substantial revenue for the game developers. It’s not unheard of for game devs to end up making more money a year after release thanks to a Steam sale than they did back when the game came out! Something that is just not going to happen on the console side of things precisely because of the sunk in costs of retail.

Also, resale of console games is something devs/publishers hate, as it’s a LOT of revenue they do not see.

I would assume he included the OS in his price, or he might have already have a copy of windows handy.

But the monitor? Should we include the price of a plasma TV to console ownership?

Yes, I agree, consoles are for kids.
Joking. Kind of.

Parts and OS. I didn’t include monitor for the computer nor the cost of a TV for the console. Arguably you use the TV for other things but then again, you use a computer for other things besides gaming. Or you could just hook up your computer to a TV.

I don’t remember if I put in 16 gb of memory from the start or paid $30 along the way to upgrade it. I haven’t upgraded the video card yet because the 9800 GTX+ still works fine and I can’t personally justify spending the cost of a significant upgrade (and obviously don’t want to spend money on a nominal upgrade).

I’d barely call it “hunting”. PC game sales are like apples in the fall. Steam, Amazon, GMG, GetGamesGo, GamersGate, etc. I’ll admit that it’s difficult to do an immediate apples to apples comparison (as I noted, I was also using ‘used disc’ pricing today for games that I bought several years ago which obviously far undervalues them) but if you want to convince me that you could amass the same collection for the same price, I’ll leave that burden on you. Of course, I’m also a lot happier buying a $5 game digitally from retailers I know than hoping that the $5 used copy of some disc I get from some random guy on Amazon/eBay is a working copy and actually arrives in a timely fashion. I mean, if that’s my console answer to PC pricing, keep me signed up for PC gaming, please!

I’ve played or will play most of them. But then, I don’t think “Yeah sure but you got eight of those games for $2 in an indie bundle!” is a real criticism of PC game pricing. Especially when those bundled games include titles like Audiosurf, Bastion, Braid, Binding of Issac, Torchlight, Terraria, Psychonauts, Amnesia, etc.

Well, where I’m buying, PC new releases list the same as console. Are you in the US? Actually, if I buy from Steam, I might even pay more for a new release, depending on the exchange rate. For example, Borderlands 2 is $69.99 AUD console or PC at the local shop. It’s $69.99 USD on Steam. I’d get gouged a bit on the exchange rate, so I’d be better off buying local.

I’m aware that console games developers and manufacturers dislike game trading. That’s why I mentioned that it probably won’t be around much longer. Seems like I have to repeat points around you a lot.

Most people are going to consider a TV to be a sunk cost, because they already bought it to watch, well, TV. It’s something they already bought or were going to buy anyway. It’s not like I’m suggesting that hardware that you don’t need for gaming (like a printer or whatever) be considered. People are likely only going to buy a monitor for because they bought a computer-- and for gaming, it’s going to have a damn good one if it’s going to compare to the average TV.

If you’re running Windows, it costs money. If he had a copy of Windows laying around, he presumably paid for it.

Anybody pricing budget gaming computers would be well advised to check if an advertised build comes with an operating system, in my experience. I’d also say that $650 is distinctly on the low side. You can go lower still, a local retailer has an “express gamer” build advertised for $419-- that’s parts only, no monitor, no OS, no keyboard, no mouse. So for a bunch of pieces that you put together yourself-- and can’t even game on until you buy some other stuff-- you’re paying double, at minimum, for what a console costs. At minimum. I don’t think it’s any news to you that a high end gaming system-- excluding monitor(s)-- will set you back 10 times what a new console costs, so maybe you should give the “PCs win on price, too” line a rest, especially if you’re going to tout the joys of the high end PC experience.

I think this is pretty subjective. Also, I just checked a sample size of two (Xcom, Skyrim:P), and it costs the same on PC as it does on a console. I’m not aware of any games where this is not the case. I guess you could say that PC Exclusives cost between $10 and $20 less, but I don’t really feel that’s true. Of course, I can’t name any recent triple-A retail PC titles, so I can’t really check.

No, because everyone buys a TV for TV. Well, everyone except me. People, as a rule, use their computer monitors for…their computer. On the other hand, they probably have one already, and unless they are concerned about input lag, it’s probably good enough, unlike the rest of the PC, which may not be.

The whole price argument, is to me, fundamentally a waste of time. There are too many factors and no one is going to be able to produce the data necessary to actually make a point on the matter. Let’s drop it.

Seriously? I thought you gamed on PC. Most titles are $60 on consoles, ~$50 (or less) on PC at release. That was the case for Skyrim, BTW. And.. let’s see:

F1 2012 just came out last week (cool game btw) It’s $32 on PC and $59 on consoles (From Amazon).

Borderlands 2 is $60 on consoles and $53 on PC.

Xcom: enemy unkown on Amazon is $45 on PC and $60 on consoles.

Skyrim right now is $36 on PC and $56 on consoles

Fifa 2013 just came out. It’s $58-$60- on console and $40 on PC.

As I said, so hook up your computer to your TV. Of course, you have a bunch of people who get their “TV” these days via Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, network sites and other shadier means. So they’re either watching their “TV” via monitor or else using their TV hooked up to a computer.

It got me a system that still works just fine today. Skyrim, Saints Row the Third, Metro 2033, etc all run fine on my “low end” system with graphic settings at Medium or higher (usually higher). I may one day decide to upgrade the video card. If I do it will be as a luxury to myself; taking a system that’s already well more powerful than a current console and making it even better than that. I’ll happily agree that there’s people who spend more than twice as much for a cutting edge system. That’s a choice they make for the experience, not a requirement to play today’s games.

Without “price”, 80% of the console argument goes out the window and leaves you with “Well, it’s easier” and some select console exclusives.

$37.50 from GMG right now (with 25% off voucher code)

33.75 right now on GMG w/ voucher

$30 on GMG with voucher.

This would be more unusual if GMG didn’t always have 20-25% vouchers these days listed in their blog.

Given that the console is a dedicated machine, I think it’s perfectly fair to call it a wash when comparing the need for the TV to the need for a monitor/a more expensive computer. You use the TV for other things than gaming, you use the computer for other things than gaming.

If one is set on comparing costs, it makes the most sense to compare the cost of a gaming console against the price difference between a productivity PC and a gaming PC; after all, a PC you’re only going to use for word processing and websurfing sure as hell doesn’t need a $300 video card.

God damn it Jophiel, do you have to upstage me every time?

I love GMG :slight_smile: