Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Porn isn’t real.
This is like arguing that people are learning how to survive a shipwreck by watching Gilligan’s Island.
Regards,
Shodan
I have found this to be true. I’d say a good 80% of men I know prefer or expect their female partners to keep it bare. They appear to be turned off by pubic hair.
I fail to see why that’s any more “damaging” than any other fashion like long hair. And women who want to attract men are always going to have to think in terms of “pleasing men”, just as the men have to think in terms of pleasing women if they want to attract some. “Women do ‘X’ to please men, therefore ‘X’ is bad” is not an argument that holds up. It may or may not be bad for other reasons, but not because they are doing it to please men, any more than it’s bad for a man to shave his beard because a woman likes clean shaven men.
Agreed, but this ties into the thread about how porn “fantasies” become male expectations. Men would not desire this were it not for porn showing them that this is how it “should” be.
Or maybe it’s just a matter of cunnilingus becoming more acceptable/popular over the years; in the occasional discussions I see on the matter, “he doesn’t like getting hair in his teeth” is one of the common reasons I see given.
I hate this as well. I don’t want to fold it in half for anyone. *rimshot. Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Try the lamb and tip your servers!
I’ve never understood this complaint, if you are getting pubes in your teeth you are doing it wrong. The pertinent areas are hair free.
Lots of porn is very, very real. Lots of it these days is made in everyday couples bedrooms (and living rooms, and decks) with home video and cellphones and loaded onto the net, showing what real folks are doing these days.
Real as in unpaid folks posting videos of their sex lives just for kicks? Not professional actors pretending to be amateurs acting out a script that somebody thought would draw an audience? If so, I sit corrected, but I have no idea how common that is.
Regards,
Shodan
Fairly common, but there is some overlap. If the “amateur” video includes a tiny superimposed logo for (let’s say) www.shodansgloryhole.com, I assume they’re at least attempting to go pro.
Nitpick: Genital depilation is, of course, somewhat more painful and carries a higher risk of follicle infection or other minor health problems than most hairstyle fashions. Sure, we’re not talking medieval Chinese footbinding here, but a “fashion” for totally smooth female pubes is arguably somewhat burdensome for women to maintain.
This issue also casts an interesting sidelight on the vexed question of whether men’s personal preferences or dislikes for various physical characteristics in women are a sign of personal “shallowness”.
It’s generally accepted (and rightly so, I think) that individuals on the whole can’t help what they like when it comes to sexual attraction. So if a guy doesn’t feel attracted to fat women, or small-breasted women, or tall women, or Asian women, or whatever, well, that may be his loss but there’s no call to judge him for that. Fair enough.
But if men’s tastes in sexual attraction really can be significantly influenced by porn genre conventions—e.g., if as grude and BT and GC have noted, men these days are really developing a strong distaste or even revulsion for female pubic hair because it’s the current fashion in porn for women not to have any—then what becomes of the claim that sexual attraction is outside our control and we shouldn’t be judged for it?
Maybe the guys who claim to be innately and inadvertently turned off by fat women, for example, just aren’t watching enough fat-chick porn.
Maybe some of the older Dopers can chime in: Was anal sex the norm back in the day?
In the 80’s I don’t recall any man asking or expecting that from me. Now it’s practically a given that they’ll at least ask at worse try without asking. Or so I hear, I’m not currently “active”.
Used to be asking for anal sex was like trying to get blood from a turnip.
Very witty Jim. ;]
Early '80s were my experimental teen years, and yeah, there was some of that. Wasn’t so much a guy “asking that from me” as a favor or demand, though, more of a mutual “these are cool toys, wonder what else we can do with them”.
I recall the general popular perception of anal sex as being “this is something some people like and some people think is really gross”, but it wasn’t automatically either unthinkable or mandatory.
All the women? Look, I don’t know if you know this, but there are a wide variety of women in porn. There’s even, like, categories.
I happen to have seen some porn on the internet fairly recently–as research before I commented on this thread. And it turns out that there’s a wide variety of material out there. If you don’t like a particular porn trope, it’s pretty easy to close that browser window and open a new one that features the stuff you do like. It isn’t like the old days, where you somehow got ahold of a VHS tape or magazine, and whatever was on the tape you were stuck with until you got a new one.
Nowadays, there’s a magic box that contains all the porn you could ever want, and you never need to waste your time masturbating to images or words that are only mildly arousing. So I don’t get the complaint that porn nowadays isn’t as good as the porn when you were a kid. That porn is still there. You don’t have to masturbate to the first video on the first page of youporn, you can take 5 seconds to go to the “vintage” category if you want.
I’m not sure that most young guys know there is a difference, not at first. Maybe many of them know, consciously and logically, there is a difference, but their unconscious mind, the part that tells them what should make them aroused becomes wired differently when they are exposed to nothing but images of hairless vaginas and anal sex in their formative years. Then that becomes what they are attracted to, what arouses them, and they don’t really know why.
The same scenario can be seen with women’s attitudes towards men. Most men in porn are circumcised (well in US-made porn at least). And therefore the first penis a young woman usually sees (in porn - yes girls look at porn too) is circumcised. This results in a preference among women for circumcised penises. However, this is the unnatural state of a man’s genitalia (the equivalent to an unshaven pubic region on a woman). I have heard anecdotes, online and in real life, about women’s negative attitudes and bad reactions to uncircumcised penises. Neither situation is fair or healthy for either gender.
I have observed this also.
Speaking of unnatural - sex toys play a prominent role in porn also. It’s my opinion that the regular use of stimulation toys is detrimental to a healthy sex life (in normal healthy people I mean, yes I realize some need the added help).
It’s not natural for a penis to vibrate, nor for a man to have two (or even three) appendages.
Not on topic I know, just thought I’d throw that out there.
Exactly, see the following experiences:
I’ve heard the same thing over and over, except with men above about 40 or so.
I find this trend disturbing and directly related to modern porn viewing habits. I grew up right at the beginning of this trend. When I was in high school (early 90s), it was unheard of for a girl to shave or otherwise wax or trim her privates. Then once internet porn made its debut, many men insisted their partners shave. I have heard of guys who refuse, refuse! to have sex with an unshaven woman. That is how wired these guys’ brains get.
Here’s why it is degrading to women: because it tells women that their natural state is somehow dirty or unclean, something about their natural body which has to be altered in order to be acceptable to men. (Same goes with circumcision, but that is a whole other debate.)
And the thing about getting hair between your teeth is bullshit because, as grude said, if your getting hair in your teeth you’re doing it wrong.