I called this custom disgusting too, and the reason I feel that way is the fact that always the male part is supposed to do the proposal. The other aspects I find just quaint.
I’m sorry but I’m not seeing a reason there why it’s disgusting. I’m honestly curious as to why. Would it become not disgusting if the woman did it? If it was a man proposing to a man?
I can’t understand why you don’t see that an act so important for the relationship between members of different sexes regularly and traditionally only executed by males isn’t highly sexist.
Highly sexist = not good. There’s also this bit:
IMO a good marriage is a partnership of equals. And a partnership of friends. The “On bended knee before the Fairy Princess” imagery is antithetical to that. There are lots of ways for each of them to demonstrate their devotion to each other and to the couple they form. This ain’t that.
I mean, it’s always much easier to spot the appallingness of blatant sexism in social conventions that you don’t happen to follow than in ones you do. I would venture to guess that in European heterosexual weddings, for example, it’s only the female partner who ever carries a bouquet of flowers. (And let’s not get into the Brautentführung custom of the best man “kidnapping” the bride!)
Objectively considered, all these gender distinctions are pretty entrenched in sexist stereotypes, but when you’re used to seeing them in your own culture, they just feel like conventional gestures rather than affirmations of sexism.
I certainly wouldn’t tell any couple who don’t like the symbolism of the “bended knee” proposal that they have to do it (I wouldn’t care for it myself), but I’m not going to freak out because a lot of people who are used to that custom don’t interpret it as grossly sexist.
Receiving expensive jewelery might have something to do with it, i assume.
( the whole 3 months worth of salary rule of thumb). ;o)
FWIW, I find that custom extremely disgusting, too. But I think it’s waning.
Really? I was under the impression that most couples who want engagement ring(s) acquire them, whether or not there are any “bended knee” proposal theatrics involved.
In fact, AIUI engagement-ring-wearers overwhelmingly prefer to have the ring(s) chosen in a shared shopping expediiton involving both parties. Sentiment’s nice and all, but ISTM that most brides (and grooms as well) want to have some input into choosing rings that they’re planning to wear for the rest of their lives. Having to commit, sight unseen, to whatever ring happens to be in the box your kneeling partner is offering you is a bit of an ask, no matter how much you like your partner.
So no. Enacting a “bended knee” proposal ritual is not the only way, or even a preferred way, for an engaged person to acquire an engagement ring.
quite possibly … the thing is that once you go "full Instagram ™ ", the ring is subject to (financial and other) scrutiny… Dare I say screw-tiny
;o)
→ I image (but am not sure), for this very reason, we might see ring-inflation nowadays
FWIW (very little to be honest) wifey and I never had engagement rings, just very low key wedding bands.
We kinda side-stepped the whole engagement thingy and married.
I’ll agree, and also disagree a bit. A good marriage is definitely a partnership of equals, and friends. I’m blessed to have that. I took a knee when I proposed because I’m somewhat traditional, maybe old fashioned, and so is my wife. It worked for us.
She’s not a princess. Far from it. (Her sister is the princess! But not my wife.) In that moment, I was treating her like a lady.
Many times during our 24 year marriage, her sister has said to me that I married the right sister. 
Never really seen it happen or known for a fact if anyone I know firsthand did it, though I’ve had people mention they know someone who did.
Huh. I remember when it was two.
Not that I’d care, my take on that always being that DeBeers could go get crammed, anyway.
two salaries get you right into cheap bastard territory nowadays…
^^
That’s why I’ve always loved punk weddings where they used beer can tabs as rings.
… AND the bride is already banged up (by somebody who is not the groom)
(rimshot)
Do you feel that way about consensual BDSM relationships? Just curious because for me it was just consensual roleplay. I don’t mean it was overtly sexual but I find heteronormative power games pretty fun.
Emphasis on games. I expect a full and equal partnership in reality. But am I gonna enjoy playing with the stereotypical female role sometimes? Hell yes I will. I wanted that. You may have noticed, I have kind of a thing for romance, and my orientation is pretty heteronormative. So let’s Pride & Prejudice this shit.
I don’t think we could have possibly made a more mutual decision than we made together and how we chose to play around with it is immaterial to the relationship dynamics at their core.
I may be uniquely qualified to answer this one, having received 14 marriage proposals. Of those, only one failed to get down on one knee. I disagree that it is in any way debasing or humiliating. Being willing to look up at your partner sometimes is an important element of equality. And US society is still highly slanted toward male dominance. So I received it as a gentle gesture of assurance, and a measure of how important this was to him.
That being said, most of them really hadn’t thought it through, or given the relationship enough time. They just knew that they liked my appearance. (Or in later years, my salary.)
What I do find disgusting is the gesture of holding up the ring at the time of the proposal. There shouldn’t be a bribe involved! Let that wait until later, IMHO.
I didn’t want a diamond ring, I wanted a gemstone one, and we got what we could reasonably afford. I printed out a bunch of rings I liked and he took a friend to pick it out. He didn’t tell the jeweler it was for an engagement, either, so as to avoid the wedding tax. Unfortunately that ring was stolen a few years later. Through a stroke of luck the replacement was much more extravagant. But I still miss the old one.
We had a small wedding in a friend’s backyard. If people want to spend all their money on a party, I’m not stopping them, but I had a hard enough time with 50 people.
We were kids. He had just graduated, I was still in college. We didn’t exactly have cash reserves.
You can absolutely get the jewelry without the whole “surprise” bended knee ritual. Plus I’ve never understood how a guy could be that confident about picking out a very expensive piece of jewelry ( or do jewelers allow returns? )
They usually allow returns. I’m sure it’s relatively common for the bride to be to prefer something else.
My husband nailed it. It was a sapphire ring and I had a matching sapphire band. It was stolen when we lived in New Jersey. Then years later he received an expensive watch he didn’t like and we returned it for store credit and instead of a different watch, I got a new wedding band. It’s also sapphire, though it has a lot of little diamonds. My husband has sapphire in his band, too.
I’ve always been a colored gemstone person myself. Sapphire is the common choice for stuff you wear every day because it is more durable than other gemstones. It also has a connotation of loyalty due to its durability. We had a poem about that at our wedding.
I picked one out without her explicit input, or at least not much. We sure didn’t go shopping together or even looking together online. It was aquamarine stone, so not stupid expensive. She loved it and even the size was right. Then again, we’re both very easy to please and don’t care too much about jewelry. I think the fact that I thought about it, put a lot of thought in picking out something nice for her, and got her birthstone (I’m pretty sure we talked about this before and that she wasn’t interested in diamonds) helped.