It seems pretty straightforward - the authors are saying that no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of SRS. Not INeffectiveness - effectiveness. They are saying what I have been saying all along - there is no good evidence that SRS reduces suicide rates. This study IOW cannot be used to conclude that SRS “works” to reduce the suicide rate of transsexuals.
The burden of proof for those who suggest that SRS has positive, objectively measurable effects remains where it started.
And again - suicide rates are one worthwhile measurement because of the inherent problem with saying “The patient was quite happy with the results of the surgery but swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills six months later and died as a result.”
Many women become upset if you ask the wrong question about a dress or a meal choice or a hairstyle. Somehow it is mistranslated as a statement about their attractiveness.
I’m still wondering what they would do if asked whether they actually have a penis.
Well, this kind of situation does also come up pretty often in rap songs, so it must be a very common problem.
Guy hooks up with a girl, then at the last second “Surprise! I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but hey, now we’re here…”
You wonder why they bother, since these situations apparently always resolve with the guy declaring that he doesn’t go in for that sort of thing, and leaving.
It is very straightforward, which is why it’s so strange that you continue to misrepresent this study. The authors quite plainly say that their study is not about the effectiveness of sex reassignment surgery as a treatment for transsexuals. They warn against using their study to draw inferences about the effectiveness of SRS because that is not a question they were even attempting to address.
It also can’t be used to conclude that SRS doesn’t work to reduce the suicide rate of transsexuals because it is not a study about whether SRS reduces the suicide rate of transsexuals. Two days ago I asked you to quote a passage from the article that compares the suicide or attempted suicide rate among transsexuals who have not had SRS to transsexuals who have had SRS, but you still haven’t been able to come up with anything. That’s because this study simply is not relevant to the point you’ve been trying to make…which is funny since you did claim that your opinion was based on PubMed studies.
So again, I’m wondering why you chose to cite a study that’s not only irrelevant, but explicitly says that it shouldn’t be used to draw the kind of inferences that you’ve been trying to draw from it.
And what everyone else has been saying is that measuring the positive benefits of a drug by changes in suicide rates is ignorant. Do we apply that all other medications, everywhere?
That’s like saying we should never have allowed people to take aspirin, acetaminophen, etc. before we could directly measure pain signals in nerves or companion physical effects in the body, because all we had was subjective evidence that they reduced pain. Or antidepressant medications such as SSRIs, which can double suicidality and suicide for young patients, especially those under 25.
I expect you’ve a record of posting in threads on SSRIs and why we need proof that they don’t decrease suicide rates in order for them to have a benefit. But doggone it, I’ve searched and searched and I can’t find where you’ve done that.
The medical establishment of most Western countries disagrees with your strange acid test of suicide rates.
I notice you originally had a qualifier of “criminal arrests” (Post 73). Interesting. What other medications do you apply a criteria of reducing “criminal arrests” before you take them? I searched again, and can’t find your position on this. :dubious:
I’m not seeing any “inherent problem” there, unless there’s some evidence that what caused the patient to commit suicide six months after the surgery had anything to do with the results of the surgery.
I know of people who’ve committed suicide after successful treatments for other medical conditions, too.
Wonder all you like. (Personally, I would calmly respond either “No” or “I don’t feel I know you well enough to discuss that at this time” and change the subject. If the women you date are more insecure or easily upset than that, though, that’s your business and your problem.) But your fear of how a cisgender woman might react if you asked her if she has a penis in no way obligates a transgender woman to spontaneously inform you if she has a penis.
Probably, as popular perceptions of gender become more nuanced and realistic, the concept of possibly mistaking cisgender women for transgender women and vice versa will come to seem both less frightening to heterosexual men and less mortifying to cisgender women.
In the meantime, all we can hope is that everybody will do their best to keep their demeanor unruffled and their panties untwisted, whatever said panties may contain.
That’s nice?