I am a bit opinionated, i would say NO. My reasoning:nobody can claim that they do not have the ability to exert some self-control. Despite all the talk about morality, surely people realize that giving in to a compulsion (which can result in harm to yourself and others) is simply wrong.
So why do we see “12 step” programs, and dubious treatments for this alleged “disease”?
Why not just teach some morality and concern for others?
I don’t think you understand the nature of mental illness. For some people, morality and self-control are not enough to deal with their obsession or compulsion.
Alcoholism can be considered along the same lines. It is a behavior that is self destructive and destructive to those around them yet obviously a lot of people are alcoholics anyway despite it being “simply wrong”. There are many other such examples.
I don’t like calling it a ‘disease’ (am on the fence about alcoholism), but certainly there’s a compulsion apparent in certain people.
And the problem with compulsions, especially ones that provide immediate pleasure, is that it is so easy for the compulsive to justify them.
People get addicted to behaviors as well as chemicals. Sex is kind of both when you figure in the chemicals the brain releases during foreplay, and during the act.
I know I’ve had some orgasms that left me feeling stoned.
What does morality have to do with sex addiction?
I have a very strong opinion on this as a person who has had “addiction” problems in the past. I’ll try hard not to do any name-calling or what have you so this doesn’t end up being ‘pit-like.’
The 12-step philosophy is quite damaging to people struggling with addictions/bad habits. There is zero evidence that it has a higher success rate than spontanteous remission. It’s a religion. Do you know of any other “diseases” that are “cured” (though they are never cured, right?) by joining a religion and praying for one day of remission?
Apparently, we are ALL addicted to something. You couldn’t have a conversation with a zealous 12-stepper and come away with out a diagnosis. We’re addicted to food by definition. We all have to eat, several times a day, right? Or we go into ‘withdrawal.’ We all have a drive to have sex, some more than others. Twelve steppers will tell you that there’s only ONE solution for ANY addiction. As I wrote in another thread, for any problem from chronic nail biting to heroin dependence, the answer is to join their cultish religion. Period, end of discussion.
This is particularly unfortunate because that philosophy is a) not based on existing research or reality and, b) is so pervasive that 95% of treatment centers in the U.S. use a 12-step approach. This has effectively shut down any new research on the subject. Any information that indicates their religious beliefs are not true is dismissed by the massive disease promoting monster.
This is another instance where I don’t think the answer really matters. If you’re diabetic, you have to take steps to control it or you will suffer dire consequences. If you can’t stop having sex with strangers, you have to take steps to control it or suffer the consequences. There’s STILL personal responsibility involved regardless of whether you call it a disease or not.
Of course, a disease status makes things treatable by medication, which I think is a great idea. If you can take necessary medication to help you gain better impulse control or, say, cure depression that may be making you act like someone besides yourself, then great! The strange thing is that the 12-step machine frowns upon taking medications for mental illnesses. Sure, you’ve GOT a disease, but you can only cure it by praying, not through modern medical science.
It is my opinion that people absolutely should be taught morality and concern for others. They should be taught methods of self-control, ways to take responsibility for their actions, and methods of coping that don’t involve some sort of chemical or physical escape. I don’t think people in trouble over their habits (sex, alcohol, whatever) would be upset about this, since they are seeking REAL help and advice, not hocus pocus nonsense slogans and prayers. But doing that would shut down an entire treatment industry and leave thousands of whacko therapists out of a job.
For the basis of my opinion, please see:
Presumably the “addicted” person is giving in to an impulse to self-satisfy without regard to who it might hurt, such as a wife or girlfriend. Many people consider it immoral to hurt others needlessly…to risk your marriage or other relationships, to put yourself and potentially a partner at risk for STDs.
If we look at the average human response to actions and behaviors, and then we look at a person who considers themselves an “addict” to a said behavior, and if there is a noticeable difference in either brainwave patterns, chemical or receptor levels, or another noticeable and observable feature similar to that, where it is no longer producing “average” levels of chemicals/hormones/NT such as dopamine as a reward or such, Then I would classify that person as having an abnormal response to a stimulus.
then I would elaborate that if it’s something which is causing him to have the potential for harm or negative consequences from it, yet the behavior persists- as yes- that person is suffering from a disease.
And if the person realizes this and wishes to stop but cannot, then they have insight on their disease, but they are still unable to stop. But it’s still a disease.
People can get addicted to anything pleasurable; people have been known to get addicted to the “runner’s high”, to the point of trying to run on a broken leg. Given how powerful and pleasurable sex and the sex drive is, it would be rather surprising if there weren’t sex addicts. Telling the difference between addicts and non addicts might be a problem in fact. I’m reminded of the old joke :
“We’ve invented a ray that turns women into sex crazed maniacs !”
“Does it work on men ?”
“We can’t tell.”
I don’t think it’s an addiction in the “heroin addict” sense, but I could believe it’s an addiction in the “gambling addict” sense. It wouldn’t be a physical dependency but rather a psychological problem, an impulse that the person found themselves unable to control.
It’s my limited understanding that there is disagreement even among the experts as to whether sex addiction is a really the result of a kind of obsessive-compulsive or impulse control disorder or not. Some would say it’s a real psychological disorder, some would say it isn’t. I don’t know what the predominant view would be.
With regard to the OP’s final question, I am all for “morality and concern for others” but some people need special help. A true kleptomaniac won’t become better able to control their impulses because they’ve been given a lecture on how stealing is wrong and hurts other. They can best be helped with medication (to help control biochemical causes of the impulses) and therapy (to help them learn to better control their thoughts and behavior, break bad habits, and form better new ones).
I don’t know whether sex addiction can be alleviated with anti-depressants or other medication, but whether it’s a psychological disorder or just a kind of bad habit then therapy could be very helpful. A good therapist would help the sex addict to set reasonable goals, learn to recognize when they first begin to feel an impulse, find ways to distract themselves with other activities, etc. Thinking about how their behavior could hurt others would probably be a part of all this, but not the only part. The sex addict would need to learn new skills and practice different ways to behave and avoid/resist temptation.
What about compulsive masturbation to pornography? No STD’s, no harm no foul, right?
I am most certainly NOT pleading my own case here!
That’s addictive behavior, and like any other compulsion dangerous at best. If you miss an important meeting because you couldn’t put off masturbating or fail to meet your rent because you spent it on yet more porn, then yes there’s harm. And if that sort of thing doesn’t happen, then your behavior isn’t compulsive and thus not addictive. Addictive isn’t a synonym for “likes a whole lot”; it’s compulsive behavior, and therefore inimical to good judgement.
I’ve been late for work due to masturbation. Lost track of time. Who buys porn these days? All you need is google image search, a file sharing program, or a porn message board (/b/ may work this if the gore threads aren’t too much of a boner kill).
All this is prolly TMI. Sorry.
I believe the AMA classifies alcoholism as a disease but I’m not sure about sex addiction.
KnitWit, I found the step program of AA very effective in helping me manage alcoholism. I didn’t find any aspect of it particularly religious; those parts that did seem religious, I simply ignored. There is no requirement as to religion to attend AA meetings although there are chapters of AA that are strongly religious. There are probably more chapters that couldn’t possibly care less about religion. There is no central authority in AA; chapters are free to do as they like. Your dogmatic condemnation of the entirety of AA may well discourage someone from attending. I don’t believe you offered a valid alternative although I am aware there are other methods claiming to treat alcoholism. Some, if not most, of those alternatives are not readily available across a wide population area while AA generally is. I believe from my experience and the experience of others that AA does serve a purpose even though AA is not universally successful. The fact remains that a lot of people have benefited from them. And I acknowledge freely that a lot of people haven’t.
Whether the AMA classifies something as a disease makes no difference to 12-step programs. There is, in fact, an SA (sex addicts anonymous) which uses the same 12-steps to “treat” sex addiction.
I would certainly hope that my information about AA discourages people from going, as I consider it to be damaging to attempts to overcome bad habits. Tholugh there certainly can be benefits to support groups, I don’t think it’s necessary to swallow 12-step philosophy in order to get those benefits. You can get a great deal out of making non-drinking peers and enjoying activities where alcohol isn’t consumed, as well as making friends with people who don’t need alcohol to have a social event. I call those peers my “knitting group” and my “family.”
Yes, I’ve heard much of this before. “If you don’t like one meeting, go find one that you do like.” In fact, there IS a central force ruling 12-step meetings. It’s…err…surprisingly enough, the 12 steps. You know, the ones that teach you you’re powerless and must pray in order to overcome a disease?
Sure, if you don’t like what they have in your local McDonald’s you can go down the street to another McDonald’s. You’ll still get the same Happy Meals and fish sandwiches. There are no “non-religious” chapters, as all but one of the 12-steps mentions god.
There are viable alternatives, that have shown a greater incidence of improvement in addictive behavior than has AA. The fact that they’re less easy to access doesn’t mean it’s not worth the effort. And easy and frequent access to AA doesn’t mean it’s effective. There’s a McDonald’s on every corner too.
Check out Dan Savage’s latest podcast (I’m sure some of his old columns are relevant, too). A guy phones in who can’t get off during sex 'cause he’s too used to porn. I doubt his condition is extremely rare, especially as younger generations grow up with the internet.
There’s also a man who calls in about his 13-year-old watching porn, and Dan tells him to make it clear that what happens in porn is not the norm. Just because there is a site for people sucking horse dicks doesn’t mean people are into that who are not involved with the site (and, likely, even those involved with it are just doing it for cash). But if you visit it every day, it might become the norm for you, and that’ll make having real, pleasurable sexual experiences away from the computer that much harder.
This thread reminds me of a saying that I have:
There is a difference between a drug user and a drug addict.
When you live with a drug user, all of their belongings start to disappear. When you live with a drug addict, all of YOUR belongings start to disappear.
Damn, KnitWit, I’m not sure where all the vitriol is coming from. I’m an atheist who became sober by means of AA. And, yes, it was AA, not your suggested alternatives of “methods of self-control, ways to take responsibility for their actions, and methods of coping that don’t involve some sort of chemical or physical escape.” I’m not an idiot, and AA was literally my last resort. I tried every damn thing else before, including will power. I was able to quit smoking with will power, but not drinking. Believe me, I tried.
Absolutely no AA member in my experience looked down on me or tried to talk me out of my atheism. I never saw anyone harmed or “converted” to a religion by means of AA, and believe me, I was looking for it. If you don’t want to participate in a group Serenity Prayer, then don’t, no biggie. I saw plenty of people who decided AA wasn’t for them, and they just left. This isn’t Scientology. Granted, my experience is just one story but not an unusual one, and your condemnation didn’t leave a lot of room for exceptions.
And, no, no one I ever met in AA claimed that we were all addicted to something. I may be addicted to Dr. Pepper, but I don’t need to drink a case of it to watch a football game. And drinking Dr. Pepper doesn’t make me act like someone I hold in contempt and shame, yet continue to drink it. Yeah, you have the few drug counselors who see addiction everywhere, but they’re idiots. And, yes, I’ve heard the tired dictum that AA is a crutch. Hell, even AA members admit it, but as crutches go, it’s pretty benign.
Sorry for contributing to the hijack, but I saw a lot of disinformation.