Does this physicist (Krauss) have a point?
Theory of Anything? - Physicist Lawrence Krauss turns on his own.
Does this physicist (Krauss) have a point?
Theory of Anything? - Physicist Lawrence Krauss turns on his own.
My understanding it that there are a number of observed phenomena that cannot be explained by existing theories like relativity and quantum mechanics; so obviously these theories are not complete. String theory can explain all observed phenomena; so it may be correct. However, nobody has figured out a way to test the theory to prove it’s correct. Arguably a different theory might also explain these same observed facts.
As for the idea that string theory is pointless because it hasn’t led to new technology, I’d offer the counter-argument that neither has the theory of gravity but nobody is disputed it’s real.
:dubious: Could we have gone to the moon, launched satellites, etc., without it?
Yes, the Invisible Pink Unicorn Theory for example. It can also explain all observed phenomena, and also has the flaw that nobody has figured out a way to test it. This is the whole point of the OP. String theory doesn’t appear to be anymore scientific than a religious explanation.
As Cisco points out, our entire exploration of space and utilisation of sattelite communications has hinged on a working theory of gravity.
I always firgured there was something fishy about string theory – thats why I never swallowed it, hook, line and sinker. Now, Rod Theory, thats a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I didn’t know the purpose of string theory was to delivery new technology. I thought it was to eliminate the discrepancies between Relativity and Quantum Theory on the subatomic scale.
I won’t pretend to a lot of knowledge about string theory, but I do know that it suggests subatomic particles aren’t irreducible. Of course it’s going to take a great deal of energy to break quarks apart, the forces holding them together are strong enough to make grown men weep. Given that, criticizing the fact that it would take a serious particle accelerator to test the hypothesis makes no sense to me.
This is a little presumptuous, isn’t it? How much do you know about string theory?
…hundreds of years after a working theory of gravity came about, yes.
How is re-staring what is quite clearly written in the OP in any way presumptuous?
Oh I see, so an application is only an application if its arrived at in less than 5 minutes after the theory itself, is that it? I’m not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.
It sounds like scientists have gone too far with string theory since they have so little to base it on; I just don’t feel qualified to say it’s nothing but a religion.
That’s because I didn’t arrive at it. I was saying that if gravity didn’t produce those results for quite some time, Krauss’s technology comment may not stand up.
That’s nice. Neither did anyone else.
Krauss’s only comment was that if this ‘theory’ isn’t scientific, and thus cannot produce results, then we all stand to lose. What part of that doesn’t stand up because gravity did produce results?
We work with gravity, but we can’t really prove it exists. All we know is that we observe certain things happening and we have a theory about why they happen. But for all we know, the reason objects attract each other based on their masses might be that Invisible Pink Unicorns are pushing them together. Actual gravitons, like strings, have never been directly observed.
As for string theory, I agree it may be wrong. But it’s the simplest existing explanation of why things happen the way we observe them happen. So it’s more than just a whimsical notion.
I paraphrased you in too few words, but I don’t think this is a big difference.
Sir Karl Popper, Conjectures and Refutations
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/popper_falsification.html
You seem to have it backwards. An entity isn’t scientific because we can prove that it exists. It’s scientific because we are able to prove that it doesn’t exist but have consistently failed to do so.
Nobody has seen a graviton, but nobody has seen an atom or ionising radiation produce a mutation for that matter. We simply infer those things exist from the effects they produce.
That’s one of the great strengths of science. We don’t need to observe anything directly to credit its existence. Instead we are able to credit an entity by observing the effects, and then predicting what the other effects we should see if such an entity does exist, or else what effects couldn’t exist in a universe without such an entity.
Gravity itself, as mass attracts mass proportional to distance, is scientific because it can be easily tested and falsified. Relativistic explanations of gravity can also be tested to some extent through the observation of lensing, a predicted outcome. I’m not sure of the status of gravitons specifically but gravity waves are scientific because they have formed the basis of numerous falsifiable predictions. Those predictions have so far failed to produce the expected results, possibly because the equipment isn’t sensitive enough, but that’s irrelevant. The theory is scientific because it is open to falsifications and it makes testable predictions. It might be wrong, but it’s still scientific.
You can see how that differs form positing supernatural unicorns as our entity. What predictions can you make regarding an IPU? How can you falsify the existence of an IPU? Even if the IPU theory is right, it still won’t be scientific if it can’t do either of those things.
Can you explain to a layman like myself why string theory is simpler than IPUs at explaining why things happen? It seems to me that the IPU theory only needs to posit one additional entity to explain all observations. String theory seems to need to posit umpteen entire dimensions to explain the observations. Doesn’t that make IPU theory simpler?
Of course if string theory is capable of making testable predictions then of course that trumps all. That makes string theory scientific. But if all we have are two competing non-scientific theories then you can’t claim that the one that seems most like science (and hence most psuedo-scientific) is simpler when it clearly isn’t.
If you don’t think there’s a big difference between “genetics is nothing but a religion” and “the genetic explanation doesn’t appear to be any more scientific than a religious explanation” then you are beyond my help I think. Just don’t repeat your assertion that I claimed that string theory was a religion. It’s just a silly strawman.
Does it make testable and falsifiable predictions?
Some say yes. At least the bits about extra dimensions. http://particle.physics.ucdavis.edu/Physics/extradim.html
I’m not really qualified to discuss string theory, but it seems to me from what I’ve read that string theory arises from various well confirmed scientific theories like quantum mechanics and relativity, and is much less ad hoc than an Invisible pink unicorn theory. The theory is mathematically consistent, again AFAIK, and aspects of it can be explored through mathematics.
Even Brian Greene, string theory’s biggest booster in the popular media, admits and laments the fact that we cannot as yet empirically test string theory. But why should that mean that the attempt to construct the theory using mathematics is somehow invalid? As long as string theorists are honest about what they’re doing and don’t pretend that their theories are as well confirmed as Quantum Mechanics, where’s the harm. String theory may be testable someday. Why not have a well developed theory ready for that happy day? I’m a big fan of Popper, but I think he’d roll over in his grave if he knew that his criteria of demarcation was being used to stifle intellectual inquiry. Just because something’s pre-scientific doesn’t mean it isn’t interesting and worthwhile.
Indeed. One valuable role philosophy can play in scientific theory is to provide insight into what can and cannot be a part of the theory. That is, make sure the theory is logically consistent. In just the same way, I think it’s been established that QM and such are not enough to explain the natural world. String theory and it’s accompanying mathematics, as I am given to understand, might be enough to provide such a consistent system, tested or not.
It seems to me that this is not sufficient evidence to claim that String Theory is not a scientific theory. What String Theory has done so far is come up with an alternate mathematical model for explaining the current experimental observations, which may eventually turn out to produce predictions of its own. I would propose that an alternate mathematical, even one that does not make predictions beyond the current model, is as much a scientific theory as the original model.
Consider Richard Feynman’s “sum-over-paths” model for explaining the movement of quantum particles. Without going into any of the details of the theory (which are superfluous to this discussion), Brian Greene in The Elegant Universe makes this comment (pg 108)
Italics in original. From what I can tell, Feynman’s method is subject to the same criticism as String Theory: that it produces no new experimentally verifiable predictions. If the String Theorists are not practicing physics (or science) as some claim, would they say the same of Feynman?
String Theorists do understnd te limits of their argument, and it frustrates the pie out fo them. Right now, however, we can’t come up with something better. At this point, we are pretty much beyond almost all practically observable phenomena.If we want to move forward on even small matters, we may need to build particle acelerators the size of small cities. And that’s just not practical.
Having read the OP’s linked article I’d say it’s author really needs to switch to decaf.