[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Right. So when he calls you and asks that you turn yourself in to Italian authorities against your wishes, you may want to question why.
[/QUOTE]
“You have a drug-resistant and deadly form of TB. You may be contagious, we don’t know.”
[QUOTE=Kokopilau]
“You have a drug-resistant and deadly form of TB. You may be contagious, we don’t know.”
[/QUOTE]
They did not say the last sentence.
[QUOTE=Barrett Bonden]
The fact that the CDC could not sit down with Speaker for a calm rational XDR-TB discussion with coffee, detailed color graphs, and an unlimited question-and-answer session is not the CDC’s fault.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Straw man
[/QUOTE]
Obviously I disagree. Probably because I’m not trying to argue that Speaker was justified in endangering his fellow passengers because the CDC didn’t communicate clearly with him.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
I think most of this could have been avoided had the CDC not hoisted several red flags and generally given him the mushroom treatment from the get-go. If my life is on the line & I have testimony from an expert in the field that I do not pose a danger to others, then I’m probably going to try save my own life. Since the CDC gave him no reason to doubt that expert’s testimony & obey their request instead, then it could be argued that he acted in a reasonably safe manner.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Barrett Bonden]
Obviously I disagree. Probably because I’m not trying to argue that Speaker was justified in endangering his fellow passengers because the CDC didn’t communicate clearly with him.
[/QUOTE]
The whole point is that Speaker was under the impression that he was not endangering his fellow passengers. He was under that impression because an expert told him he was not contagious, and because no one refuted that expert’s opinion.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
The whole point is that Speaker was under the impression that he was not endangering his fellow passengers. He was under that impression because an expert told him he was not contagious, and because no one refuted that expert’s opinion.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree that Speaker believed he wasn’t contagious, despite the fact that he was.
I believe that if the CDC told someone he had XDR-TB, that he was being placed on a no-fly list, and that he should not fly commercial airliners, a reasonable person would infer that he was being treated as if he were contagious. He would then ask something like, “Why are you treating me as if I am contagious? My doctor told me I wasn’t.” The CDC, which has some experience in these matters, could then explain that his doctor was wrong and that he is contagious.
Instead of this warm-fuzzy scenario, the CDC had to track Speaker down to issue the diagnosis and new urgent instructions. He assured them he wouldn’t go anywhere and then he skipped town. Speaker was a danger to other people, he was being treated by the CDC as if he were a danger to other people, and he severed communication with them as they were trying in good faith to inform him of that fact!
Fulton County said, “You’re not contagious. Don’t travel.” Speaker depended on the former and ignored the latter.
The CDC said, “You’re dangerously ill. Stay where you are!” Speaker acted on the former and ignored the latter.
Speaker cannot honestly argue that he was acting in good faith on medical advice. He was acting on fifty percent of the medical advice, that fifty percent which corresponded with his own agenda.
I contend that Speaker should have realized that he was contagious and that he had possibly the best resource in the world trying to set him straight on the topic. The fact that he ran away with his fingers in his ears singing la-la-la instead of asking some intelligent questions doesn’t excuse him from his obligation to know and act accordingly.
If you believe that a guy who has just been told by the CDC that he’s under quarantine shouldn’t be able to reasonably assume that he is contagious, or at very least, ask a few pertinent questions of the Expert on the line, we should just stop arguing.
All this tail-chasing will make us both way too dizzy.
[QUOTE=Barrett Bonden]
He would then ask something like, “Why are you treating me as if I am contagious? My doctor told me I wasn’t.” The CDC, which has some experience in these matters, could then explain that his doctor was wrong and that he is contagious.
[/QUOTE]
He asked exactly that, in very similar words. They refused to give him an answer.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Right. So when he calls you and asks that you turn yourself in to Italian authorities against your wishes, you may want to question why.
[/QUOTE]
I doubt that I will be asking him for medical advice, but based on what I know of him now, I certainly won’t be hiring him as an attorney, because I fear that he would want to put his interests before those of his client.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
He asked exactly that, in very similar words. They refused to give him an answer.
[/QUOTE]
What happened is that they failed to give him an answer that satisfied him. That’s not the same thing.
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
I doubt that I will be asking him for medical advice, but based on what I know of him now, I certainly won’t be hiring him as an attorney, because I fear that he would want to put his interests before those of his client.
[/QUOTE]
I was just pointing out that this isn’t a pissing contest. When I post something about the CDC lying, there is a legitimate reason for doing so. Pointing out that Speaker also lied was irrelevant to the immediate point I was making. If you think its important in another context, then say so, However, it had nothing to do with the point we were discussing.
Cite?
Cite?
Or is this personal information you’ve gotten from TBAndy yourself?
Mr Lion Tamer; I get the impression that all of your arguements in this lengthy thread are trial balloons in anticipation of upcoming civil law-suits. :dubious:
BTW, no one here is saying TBA broke the law, just that we think he’s an irresponsible, selfish, asshat. Me included.
sinjin
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
What happened is that they failed to give him an answer that satisfied him. That’s not the same thing.
[/QUOTE]
No, they failed to give him an answer.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
No, they failed to give him an answer.
[/QUOTE]
No, they failed to give him an answer that satistfied him.
[QUOTE=sinjin]
Cite?
Cite?
[/QUOTE]
Read the thread.
[QUOTEMr Lion Tamer; I get the impression that all of your arguments in this lengthy thread are trial balloons in anticipation of upcoming civil law-suits. :dubious: [/QUOTE]
If this little piece of stupidity is all you have, then I’ll assume you’ve run out of intelligent things to say.
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
No, they failed to give him an answer that satistfied him.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, what answer did they give him? Because, when they were told that Speaker’s claim was that he received no answer, they refused comment. I’d like to know why it is you know more than the rest of the United States on this one.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Pointing out that Speaker also lied was irrelevant to the immediate point I was making. If you think its important in another context, then say so,
[/QUOTE]
It is important in this context - you make much hay that the CDC was hanging him out to dry in this backwater with no medical care known as Rome, Italy. I think this is incorrect. The CDC doctor says they were still looking at options for getting him home, and probably thought that they had some time to work on it (this is not a fantasy land where government doctors have jets at their disposal that can show up on a moment’s notice just by snapping your fingers) - especially since Mr. Speaker had assured them that he would not try and get on a commercial flight.
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
Okay, what answer did they give him? Because, when they were told that Speaker’s claim was that he received no answer, they refused comment.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll also ask for a cite for this, I missed it in the articles I’ve read. The reason that they gave him for needing to stop travelling is that he had a much worse form of TB than was originally thought.
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
It is important in this context - you make much hay that the CDC was hanging him out to dry in this backwater with no medical care known as Rome, Italy. I think this is incorrect. The CDC doctor says they were still looking at options for getting him home, and probably thought that they had some time to work on it (this is not a fantasy land where government doctors have jets at their disposal that can show up on a moment’s notice just by snapping your fingers) - especially since Mr. Speaker had assured them that he would not try and get on a commercial flight.
[/QUOTE]
The doctor did not say that they were still looking for a way home. In the testimony yesterday, she said they explored two dead-ends, and that was it. They initially said they were exploring options, but backed off that statement. As a result, a Senator called them on the lie (he said inconsistency).
I have read the thread. 
All 16 pages of it. The way your post was written led me to believe that you personally had more information than the rest of us.
[/QUOTE]
I must have missed it while reading late at night but is there a transcript of his conversation with the CDC while in Italy? If so a cite would be appreciated. If not how do you know what he asked, in what kind of words and that the CDC ‘refused’ to answer him, or is this just based on Asshat Andy’s version of events.
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
I’ll also ask for a cite for this, I missed it in the articles I’ve read. The reason that they gave him for needing to stop travelling is that he had a much worse form of TB than was originally thought.
[/QUOTE]
He made the claim on GMA. I believe the link is still online. Do you have a cite that they gave him an answer that was unsatisfactory?
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer]
He made the claim on GMA. I believe the link is still online. Do you have a cite that they gave him an answer that was unsatisfactory?
[/QUOTE]
BTW< I can probably find it for you if you give me until tomorrow. We’re getting ready to head out for the night, but I think I’ll be on the PC in the morning.