Please for gawdssakes do not tell us how you know this. Especially the detail about Soya Burgers. *“Exactly when did you lst see your boyfriend, Miss?”
:eek:
So- Exapno Mapcase how smart does an animal have to be to feel what you define as “love”? Smart birds- you say no. Dogs? Cats? Rats? Dolphins? Chimps? “Slow” Humans? I know my cats “love me”, and my dog adored me.
Perhaps not by your definition, but there is certainly real affection. And I know some humans that seem to me to be incapable of “love”. Where does affection turn to “love”? Personally, it’s a hard line to draw, I’d say, and maybe it should be drawn slightly on the far side of these rather intelligent birds. Or not. So- where do *you *draw the line?
Lissa, really, you can pay no attention to Excalibre, he’s *always *like that.
Antarctica’s a continent twice the size of Australia, and once you get a certain distance from the shore there’s nothing to eat. Just how far inland do penguins (or any animals) ever travel?
According to multiple sources (just Google “penguins travel inland” – they all say about the same) Emperor penguins travel up to around 60-70 miles inland. They survive off their fat stores during the journey and initial chick-raising and are literally starving to death by the time they can eat again.
Okay, you’re right. (Hate to interrupt the interesting but increasingly incendiary Luv question, but wanted to say the three prettiest words in the English language.)
I do wanna say, however, the rate of decomp is so slow while frozen, to eyeballs and fingers and nose, the difference between a body that went into the freezer in November and came out in March is indistinguishable. Sort of like hamburger you’ve kept in your freezer for that long. No, sort of like ham hocks (since they have skin).
But that surely could be part of what’s behind the apparent faster rate of decomp once thawed. Though ice crystals are likely to have something to do with it.
Since this case has been adjudicated, I could tell you about it if you wanted to know, although it would definitely constitute a hijack of this thread. Which seems to me to be in need of hijack. Neither Excalibre nor Lissa will convince eachother, and although I’ve weighed both sets of answers and felt there were many good points made by both, I’m finding myself coming down on Lissa’s side. And the anger I feel from some of the responses has me stopping reading. Once that much sheer fury gets in, my hope for enlightenment goes out.
Show of hands for how the Boca Burgers got into the freezer? Flippers?
Mammoths frozen in the tundra last rather a long time.
Also, until recently (and maybe still) there was a problem with litter on Mount Everest
part of the ‘litter’ was dead and frozen Sherpas
My guess is that 60 miles inland, the blighters get covered in snow, while there is relatively warm carrion around (dead or on the hoof) predators will go for it, but once it is frozen solid, bacterial decay is out and even a light snowfall will cover it.
I agree with Gabriella about the tenderizing effect of freezing, the water expands breaking or rather bursting the cells. I once experimented with freezing things like apples and strawberries - sole and in blocks of ice.
Also a fairly good recipe is to marinated beef, then shove it in a plastic bag and freeze it.
It tenderizes the meat rather well.
As for ‘love’ - I’m surprized that nobody has mentioned the Turing Test (although someone astutely gave the ‘Walks like a duck’ version).
Personally I find animal behaviour astonishing, but I find human behaviour equally astonishing.
I’ve seen animals display astonishing intelligence and benevolence, only surpassed by seeing humans display the antithesis.
Why are you suddenly following me from thread to thread to say this, DrDeth? If Lissa has a problem with my behavior, she is free to tell me so herself.
Yeah, I knew it was VERY slow decomposition, and that they keep finding mammoths over 12,000 years old that were not below -62C the entire time that are still recognizable, but I figured for the dead penguins to accumulate to the ‘knee-deep’ level, they would have to remain intact for many tens or hundreds of thousands of years. I imagine the penguins who died half a million years ago are no longer recognizably penguins, despite the cold.
For non-flying species, the Emperor Penguin gets furthest from open water or pack-ice: a maximum of about 200 km, or 120 miles to the winter breeding colonies. Probably an occasional one becomes disoriented and trudges inland until it eventually starves to death.
Most Emperors breed on fast-ice shelves, that is, sea-ice attached to the Antarctic continent. There are only two colonies on land.
By the time the chicks are ready to go to sea in the summer the fast ice has melted until there is open water close to the colony, usually within a few kilometers. Any penguins that have died during the winter will almost certainly thaw out and be subject to bacterial decomposition. However, as I already mentioned, there are plenty of scavenger birds around penguin colonies, especially by the summer when they are close to open water. Dead penguins and other waste will almost certainly be consumed rapidly by Giant Petrels, Skuas, and other birds (even bodies that may still be frozen), and few corpses will be around long enough to rot.
While there may be an occasional penguin that dies in a spot where it is covered by snow and not found by scavengers and never thaws out enough to rot, this is going to be a very rare event.
Thank you, Colibri for interjecting some actual facts in this thread which are relevant to the OP. It was beginning to look like this thread was impervious to facts of any kind - relevant or not. Once again, you’ve drilled right to the heart of the question and provided an excellent answer.
You’ve said almost exactly the same thing in two different threads twice - all in one morning. That you think this is any of your business is puzzling indeed; if I were Lissa, I’d be rather insulted by the condescending assumption that she’s not capable of taking care of herself. Clearly you are; I’m not sure why you’re even trying to claim otherwise.
The irony of this comment is that, while in almost any argument this rather unfunny joke could potentially be apropos, this one is the exception. There’s not a single substantive point Lissa and I are in disagreement on here - all I said was that her argument is logically flawed; mostly, I just wanted to talk about an interesting subject. I haven’t taken a position whatsoever on what emotions penguins feel; I generally agree with Lissa’s materialist view on this issue. At any rate, the fact that you made this “joke” in a circumstance where it simply doesn’t make sense at all proves that - once again - you’ve shot your mouth off at me without even bothering to pay attention to what I’ve said. That’s sad enough when it’s in a thread in which you are nominally participating in the discussion (and you certainly do it in those instances as well.) But in this case, the fact that you still haven’t actually read the thread just shows that you’re looking for any opportunity to try to start shit with me.
I mean, does it seem to you that perhaps you should at least read a thread before you offer up your inane commentary on a poster’s behavior? Because tossing insults around at someone when you don’t even know what’s going on just makes you look petty and foolish. Not to mention the fact that you had tried to start an argument over a hijack that had already ended. At any rate, the evidence suggests that your pathetic attempt at getting Lissa to join in your attempted feud with me has failed.
