Yesterday the Lakers shot 37 free throws to Portland’s 16, a bigger discrepancy than even game 1 when the Blazers deliberately fouled Shaq 25 times in the fourth quarter. The NBA certainly didn’t want to see a Portland/Indiana finals from a tv ratings standpoint, but do you think they go as far as to influence the outcome of games?
Portland still had a chance to win that game if they hit some shots in the 4th but I would still say they got screwed.
And all you LA people, tell me that Steve Smith wasn’t absolutely drilled on that drive to the hoop. As time goes on I start to think more and more that the only legit Pro sport is wrestling.(At least they tell you it is rigged)
Anyway, LA fans beware. The better story at this point is The Hich from French Lick winning the Championship in his last season as coach.
I did not want the Lakers to win. I can’t stand Shaq and Kobe just rubs me the wrong way. Portland could’ve stayed in the game if they’d made some important free throws. Plus they were just throwing bricks in the 4th quarter.
I know people hate the comparison but Pippen’s no Michael Jordan. He doesn’t have the killer instinct that Jordan possessed. Michael would’ve taken over the game with a few minutes left and kept the momemtum going for his team. Scottie just doesn’t have that drive and doesn’t have the strength of character to motivate his team to victory. A good team leader will get players to play with everything they have and Portland just gave up.
As far as the Pacers go, they don’t have a snowball’s chance of winning the finals. I love Larry Bird and I’d like to see his team win but I don’t think it’ll happen. I just don’t think the Pacers are strong enough to beat the Lakers 4 times.
Yes, Steve Smith was drilled. No question about it.
Yes, it should have been a foul.
I’d like to believe that there’s no actual bias by the referees in terms of trying to “make” one team win over another. While I’m sure the network executives and league admins probably did want the Lakers to win, I doubt there was any mandate to give the Lakers (or any other team, ever) all the close calls (or even a majority of them).
If such a thing were to happen and become known, it would destroy the integrity of the sport. This is why major league baseball bitch slapped (not meant to be a sexist remark) Pete Rose so hard.
For whatever it’s worth, remember that in the NFL, Tennessee beat Buffalo on a very, very close call. If there were any “big market”, “regional”, or TV ratings biases, Buffalo would have won that game. And, unlike yesterday’s game, the officals in the football game had quite a bit of time to take any bias into account, given the long delay with the instant replay.
By the way, before the Steve Smith foul, they whistled Shaq for goaltending on a shot by Rasheed Wallace that was very, very close. I don’t think it was a bad call, but to me it could have gone either way.
Look, Portland gave the Lakers a much harder time than people thought they would, and they should have won the game (“should have” in the sense that they should have held on, not that they were cheated). But even they aren’t blaming the refs for losing the game. Refs didn’t make them miss all those baskets, and if the refs were trying to make the Lakers win, I doubt the Lakers ever get behind by 16.
Yes, I’m from LA, but I’m a far bigger UCLA fan than the Lakers (or anyone else). Some of you may remember that two years ago, UCLA lost a football game to Miami that, had they won, they’d have played for the National Championship. You may even remember that UCLA lost the game after Miami recovered a fumble on a call that was almost certainly a bad call. While I was pissed off that UCLA lost, I didn’t blame the refs so much as my own team–we were favored by more than 10 points and had a big lead not too long before. Sure, we could argue that we lost on a bad call, but we never should have been in a position where a bad call could cost us the game.
JUST like Portland.
The Lakers tanked game 6. They didn’t give the appearence of trying for an offensive rebound. Something was fishy there.
Ever watch him travel? Every time he dunked or shot a lay up.
Trivia question…
Who was the last person to hold Jordon to under 20 points?
Yes, yes, yes, and HELL YES!! The NBA is totally fixed. I’m a Utah Jazz fan, and when they were playing the Bulls in the finals… ooohhhh man. I’m surprised more people didn’t pick up on it. Howard Isley hit a buzzer beating three pointer, and they took it away. The damn ball was already on it’s downward path when the buzzer went off. The Bulls (I can’t remember which player) tried to beat the buzzer on a three pointer in the same game. The ball was still in his hands when the buzzer sounded. He threw it up, it went in, and THEY COUNTED IT!! Anyone so much as breathed on Jordan, and they’d call a foul, but how damn many times did Rodman have to foul Malone before they would call it? TONS!! It’s just not profitable for the NBA, if the Utah Jazz are the champions.
Man, don’t get me started. :mad:
Yes, yes, yes, and HELL YES!! The NBA is totally fixed. I’m a Utah Jazz fan, and when they were playing the Bulls in the finals… ooohhhh man. I’m surprised more people didn’t pick up on it. Howard Isley hit a buzzer beating three pointer, and they took it away. The damn ball was already on it’s downward path when the buzzer went off. The Bulls (I can’t remember which player) tried to beat the buzzer on a three pointer in the same game. The ball was still in his hands when the buzzer sounded. He threw it up, it went in, and THEY COUNTED IT!! Anyone so much as breathed on Jordan, and they’d call a foul, but how damn many times did Rodman have to foul Malone before they would call it? TONS!! It’s just not profitable for the NBA, if the Utah Jazz are the champions.
Oh, and what about Brian Russell getting fouled on a three point shot at the end of their last game with Portland? He should have had three foul shots for that one, but did they give it to him? NO!!
Man, don’t get me started. :mad:
Yes, yes, yes, and HELL YES!! The NBA is totally fixed. I’m a Utah Jazz fan, and when they were playing the Bulls in the finals… ooohhhh man. I’m surprised more people didn’t pick up on it. Howard Isley hit a buzzer beating three pointer, and they took it away. The damn ball was already on it’s downward path when the buzzer went off. The Bulls (I can’t remember which player) tried to beat the buzzer on a three pointer in the same game. The ball was still in his hands when the buzzer sounded. He threw it up, it went in, and THEY COUNTED IT!! (Jazz only lost that game by 1 point). Anyone so much as breathed on Jordan, and they’d call a foul, but how damn many times did Rodman have to foul Malone before they would call it? TONS!! It’s just not profitable for the NBA, if the Utah Jazz are the champions.
Oh, and what about Brian Russell getting fouled on a three point shot at the end of their last game with Portland? He should have had three foul shots for that one, but did they give it to him? NO!!
Man, don’t get me started. :mad:
DRY wrote:
For whatever it’s worth, remember that in the NFL, Tennessee beat Buffalo on a very, very close call. If there were any “big market”, “regional”, or TV ratings biases, Buffalo would have won that game. And, unlike yesterday’s game, the officals in the football game had quite a bit of time to take any bias into account, given the long delay with the instant replay.
There are several things I disagree with here. Who wins the Superbowl on a last second play is irrelevant. The game has already been watched, the revenue collected. There’s no point in fixing it. You would influence a game to determine future games. As spooje suggested, Portland did get calls in game 6 (Lakers were called for 27 fouls to Portland’s 19) and by winning assured a big money game 7 on Sunday. And it isn’t just regional bias I’m talking about. Kobe Bryant is the top selling name in NBA merchandise. People all over the country want to see him and Shaq on TV. Not just LA.
The Steve Smith call isn’t what I’m talking about. The high profile calls aren’t usually the ones that really influence outcomes. There were two very questionable touch fouls against Sabonis in the last few minutes. Sabonis fouls out. The game is essentially over. Sabonis is no superstar, but he was the only guy big enough to hold Shaq up until the double and triple teams could come. In the last few minutes with Brian Grant on him, Shaq made some easy baskets that he had very few of in the last two games, and the Lakers pulled away. These are the kind of calls that can turn games without people noticing.
I’m not saying I believe this, and I’m certainly not suggesting that there is a league mandate. That would be discovered sooner or later. But human nature is a very subtle and complex beast. In many industries people who tell the bosses what they want to hear get promoted, while people who tell the truth might be thought of as troublemakers. There’s no question that officiating is not totally above board. When is the last time you saw a superstar foul out of a big game, and what do you think would happen to the ref that called foul number six on Michael Jordan in game seven of a playoff series? He probably wouldn’t get fired, but do you think they’d schedule him to Jordan’s next playoff game? Or any playoff games? Refs are human, and they have egos and mortgage payments like the rest of us.
Well, I generally give sports the benfit of the doubt. In the Super Bowl reference, I don’t think there was any bias. Now, I highly doubt that there is any specific mandate writen on self destructing paper that tell officials to bias for teh big market teams. I do however think that in the NBA the last two years, especially considering how badly they are suffering between MJs departure and the strike…not to mention the complete lack of any sympathetic player personalities, there has been a huge disproportion of bad calls against the little guys.
I’m thinking the media plays into it, since they benefit the most from TV rating on a supposed NY-LA series.
One factor I like to mention is that in the St Louis-Tennessee Super Bowl (arguably two of the least likely fan bases) the fan enthusiasm, and nationwide interest was at a recent peak. While the fan base in those two cities ins moderate, the rest of the nation all tuned in to pull for the suprise Rams with Vermiel and Warner, and everyone else pulled for the Music City Miricles, especially enjoying the trials of their 3 year homeless stretch. Had it been a San Fran-Dallas series I would have been much less excited about it, last years was the most appealing Super Bowl (even before the great game) since the Buffalo-New York one.
I think this would also be true in the NBA, and I can speak with authority since I haven’t watched many games since MJ and the strike. I never missed one when MJ and one of the Bulls potential opponents played come playoff time, but now I could care less. I can’t imagine many people outside of NY and LA would waste a hour of their time watching a NY-LA championship. Sprewell and Shaq are about as much fun to watch as old people fucking. Kobe is fun, and I could generally imagine pulling for him (hard for a Chicagoan/Midwesterner to say about anything in LA) but the rest of the team is ugly. The Knicks are the worst thing to happen to basketball since the tore down the Madhouse on Madison. I’d imagine there would be a spike in nationwide interest should we see a Milwuakee-Minnesota series, or some such. The point being, fixing NBA games in favor of the LA/NY type markets may not even be the most lucrative. But of course, I don’t think the NBA administrators and the media moguls can see the forest for the trees.
Ozone, gimme a break about the Chicago-Utah bullshit. Most certainly there was no fix, Utah never even pushed the Bulls to the limit, and for every Jordan call, Malone got two. Its the sheer nature of the interior position, every bump could go either way, and the refs usually go in favor of the big name. Malone/Shaq/Duncan/Ewing…they all get more calls than the MJ/Miller/Bryant/Stockton’s of the world. Utah was clearly over-matched every year. The reason no one else picked up on it, is because it wasn’t there, you’re biased eyes just need a scapegoat.
All that said, this years playoffs were very ugly. LA seemed to get a shit load of calls every game of the Portland series. NY seemed to get quite a bit of help too, that series should have been over much sooner once Ewing and Camby were hobbled, but some questionable calls kept them in it. Now, I guess there might not be any fix (probably not) but the other option is that the refs are simply bad, and getting worse. Maybe its time to clean out the dreck. Any game done by Dick Bavetta’s or Hugh Hollin’s crew is a garunteed contraversy. Maybe they should take after the MLB, but the NBA is afraid of any more bad press. The truth of the matter is that the NBA isn’t any fun to watch anymore. Bad attitudes with the players, thuggish style of play, poor fundamentals, rare team defense. Now half the game is spent shooting free throws…badly. I’d like to see a stat outlining the total number of fouls (maybe neglecting cheapies at teh end of blowouts) 20 years ago, 10 years ago, during the Bulls reign, and this season. I bet that this year is a huge jump over the Bull’s championship series. Is it the style, or the increased influence of officiating? Either way it raises the chances of intentionally or unintentionally unfiarly biased calls.
God, I hope so… Oh sorry, I thought you meant “fixed” as in “spayed”, nevermind (good idea, tho). 
I have to clarify something here:
The Tennessee-Buffalo game determined which team would advance to the next round (this was the disputed forward lateral on the kickoff–“the Music City Miracle”, not the game saving tackle right in front of the endzone). So it definitely did influence future games. It didn’t even put Tennessee into the Super Bowl, it allowed them to play Jacksonville in the next round for the right to go to the Super Bowl.
I should also point out that several years back, when he was with the Red Sox, Roger Clemens (who was obviously integral to Boston at the time) got thrown out of a playoff game for arguing balls and strikes (I think it was in an AL playoff game against the A’s. He should have received the benefit of the doubt due to his superstar status. Of course, it’s possible he did, and he crossed that line.)
Are there biases? I can’t prove there aren’t any more than you can prove there are. Nor would it particularly surprise me, as yeah, I’ve seen his Airness travel without it being called multiple times, and I don’t think Magic Johnson was capable of dribbling a ball without carrying it over (watch ESPN Classics).
Asmodeus, I don’t know the answer to the trivia question, but I seem to recall some rookie guard on Washington, named “La” something, either scoring a lot of points against Jordan and/or holding him to a low scoring game. He made the mistake of boasting to the press about this, and when the two teams played again (their very next game), Jordan ripped him a new one. :eek:
If you are talking about a single player, I gotta guess Joe D.
To the OP:
I do not think so. I don’t like the way the NBA calls its games. If you want to change the game, fine. Change the rulebook. But according to the way the rules are written, there is a foul on almost every play.
But rigged? No. I think that the NBA refs do a good job of calling the games the way they are taught. At least they are not afraid to blow the whistle in the last 2 minutes.
that was a great UCLA season… i went to every football game that year. it was so disappointing what happened, and i dont think they should have let it happen, but i guess you can’t do anything about it.
i dont think the NBA is fixed in the strict sense, but officials do favor certain players , it seems
Dean Smith
Punchline to a common joke, sorry I missed it the first time.
Sorry DRY. I misread your comment. Once again, my handle is well earned.
What everyone is ignoring is how difficult it would be to fix an NBA game… Even if they wanted to, it’sunlikely that they could keep such a mandate a secret no matter how ambiguously it was worded.
Just my opinion.
Far be it from me to make any accusations, but I don’t think the Western Conference Finals could have gone any better from the NBA bigwigs’ standpoint. An intense, 7-game series between #1 and #2 in the NBA? Ending with a spectacular come-from-behind finish by LA? With a little controversy thrown in? OK, it could happen. It could even happen easily. But, MAN, is it a coincidence.
The NBA has been promoting LA all year as the next Bulls. It was obvious that they would like them to do well. I have a hard time swallowing the idea that the businessmen running things are moral and ethical enough to resist the temptation of meddling just a little bit.
I’m not saying I definitely believe something screwy DID happen. I just have a hard time believing that it didn’t, either.
Grendel69 wrote:
What everyone is ignoring is how difficult it would be to fix an NBA game… Even if they wanted to, it’s unlikely that they could keep such a mandate a secret no matter how ambiguously it was worded.
I had previously written:
I’m not saying I believe this, and I’m certainly not suggesting that there is a league mandate. That would be discovered sooner or later. ____________________________________________________________
By everyone I’m assuming you meant ‘everyone except that one guy whose posts are so pointless and tedious I just can’t seem to wade through them.’ If that’s what you meant then I agree. On all points.